This is BY FAR the most INSPIRING podcast I’ve ever recorded.Because in this conversation with Del Bigtree, we talk about what is really at stake in the election for our next president. Some would say, everything. In this conversation we talk about the current state of the political, social, and environmental landscape to share both the urgency of the situation and our faith in the solutions. We both believe Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is our best chance at mending the wounds in our culture, and co-creating the future that would make us proud when our grandchildren read the history books. More on Del Bigtree: After achieving success as an Emmy-winning producer on the CBS talk show The Doctors, his life took a significant turn with the production of the groundbreaking documentary VAXXED. This documentary is widely recognized for sparking a global movement against the dominance of pharmaceutical companies. Presently, Del's internet talk show, The HighWire, has rapidly gained popularity, becoming the fastest-growing program in the Natural Health field.Del also leads the non-profit organization ICANdecide.org, spearheading worldwide investigations into fraudulent practices related to drugs and vaccines.However, Del's most notable attribute lies in his compelling speeches, which combine shocking truths, sharp wit, and fervent passion to create an electrifying and unforgettable  experience.

AUBREY: Del, it's good to have you here, brother.
DEL: It's really great to be here, Aubrey. It's an honor.
AUBREY: Yeah. When did you really find yourself, like, first pressed into service? You know what I mean? Because you've been really vocal, and I've become aware of you over the last three years since the start of the pandemic, really. But, I'm sure there's a deeper history of when you were kind of first called to really stand for what you believe in, stand for what you feel is right, stand for what you feel is true.
DEL: I sort of want to give a shout out to my parents, actually. I think it's something that we don't talk a lot about. It's so important how we raise our kids, and I think it's probably the most important job that we do. And I was one of these people that was really lucky to be blessed with parents that were conscious, conscious about what they were doing. And so, they raised me with an understanding of how spectacular this life is, and taught me to meditate when I was like three or four years old. I hated it most of the time when I was a kid. So, when we're doing it with my son right now, he's like, "Dad, this is boring." I say, "One day, this will make more sense to you. But I really need you understand that this is a practice you need in your life, to just sort of push out all the chatter of the world, and get focused and listen to--
AUBREY: One day, you'll do mushrooms and figure out where you're headed.
DEL: No, I haven't had that conversation yet. But things like that absolutely were transformative in my life. And so, I say that because my parents instilled in me an idea that you can make a difference in the world, and you should try to be making the world a better place. So, all along the way of the work that I've done, when I look back, I always gave everything a little spin. Sometimes secretly, when I'm working in television, it really just wants an argument, wants a fight, or wants to create drama. I always tried to use the jobs I have working for CBS, on "The Dr. Phil Show" for instance, or even, then they created "The Doctors Television Show" where I really, so, I won an Emmy Award there. But I use those opportunities as best as I could to try and promote the spectacular beauty of humanity in some way. And then, obviously I got into this vaccine issue because I was tipped off of a whistleblower inside the CDC, and that was saying that they were committing scientific fraud in the vaccine safety studies. And I would say that that's the moment where, suddenly, I'd been sort of being careful, and sneaking a little bit of truth and love and thought into the work I'm doing, and getting a great response on television. That's where, if I'm going to move forward and tell this story, I'm going to piss off everybody that's ever loved me or worked with me, especially here at CBS. I'm about to really, in their mind, turn on them. And that was hard, because I really did appreciate the journey I'd been on, all the successes I'd had. But taking on the pharmaceutical industry means I'm going to wipe out all of those that sponsored all the work I've done up until this moment. So that's the moment where my life changed.
AUBREY: That's the moment where you had to make the sacrifice.
DEL: Yeah, yeah.
AUBREY: It's interesting you telling the story, because I have a similar story, minus the meditation. But of course, my dad did send me on my first psychedelic vision quest. So, he made up for it in spades when I actually graduated high school. But, there were certain elements. Like my mother always had a philosophy, like, we can't help everybody, but anybody who crosses our path or any animal who crosses our path, we'll do our best if they need our help. And that could be, I mean, I remember one time, there was a hawk that was clearly wounded. And my mom was like, her philosophy, if there's ever an animal that's hurt for whatever reason, we've got to help it. This big, bigass hawk. And it's at her ranch in Dripping Springs, and I'm probably 16. My mom's like, "Alright, here's the plan. You need to go get this hawk." And I'm like, "Get a hawk? It's a raptor. What do you mean, mom? She's like, "Don't worry, I'm going to give you a kitchen mitt." And I was like, "A kitchen mitt? It doesn't have hot talons, they're just sharp. I don't know if this is going to work." And I was like, "What about my eyes?" She's like, "You should wear some sunglasses." So, I'm out there with sunglasses, a kitchen mitt, and a piece of cut steak. And I have it on my hand. And it turned out that the hawk was also trained in falconry, or something. It just got injured. And so, we brought this hawk in, I named it Tony the Hawk, and we rehabilitated it, and then brought it out. But it was always this feeling that life is precious, and if we have a chance to serve life, we should. And then my father on the other side, his integrity was impeccable. He would make mistakes, but he would always own up to them. It didn't matter. If he felt like something was right, he would do it. And I think those foundational principles really then press you into service when you have that. When you have value that lives in your body, and it's been instilled, then when you realize that the world needs your service, then you step forward. And I think it's probably very similar to why Bobby decided to run for president. If the country didn't need him, he would be happy, like, running falcons and hiking, and cruising around, and fighting for the environment or whatever else he was doing. But he can feel that all right, now's the time where my country needs me. He's being pressed into his own service as he has been for the last, I don't know, most of his life in different areas, I suppose.
DEL: Yeah. I mean, I think what's amazing, and he says it himself. He said it in his announcement speech. If you look at my life, I did not live my life in a way that looked like I was planning on running for president of the United States. And I think a lot of people try to say, I was just reading New York Times today. He had an article, and they're trying to say he's running just on his family's name. We have the honor of knowing him. I would say he's running on his family's moral code, on his family's ideals. And when you talk to him, you get to know him, you realize sort of like we're talking about, the way he was raised, his grandfather would make him memorize an entire poem and say, "You're not allowed to sit down at the dinner table tonight until you can recite this." We really don't know what it's like to grow up in a family that truly believes not only are we of service, we're going to be of high standing political service. They see themselves in many ways as a royal family and an institution to bring about change. You look at his family members, they have started Special Olympics and wings of hospitals and things, all over the world. The Peace Corps. When you realize when he takes on this mission, he's standing on the shoulders of a legacy and an ideal system that's really in his DNA. It's an honor to get to hear him tell his stories, and sort of what he was socialized to believe about the world and his place.
AUBREY: His children, I got to meet two of them and spend a good amount of time with Finn and Aiden, and he's successfully, from everything that I can see, transmitted that same thing in his kids. And the stories that his kids tell, like, his kids were not pitching me on their dad, but they were just telling stories. And the stories that they tell, tell the picture of a truly a great man, just a great man. And it's unbelievable, from when one of his daughters was off working in a commune, and for five years, wrote her a letter every single day, for five years as she was gone, to know that, alright, you may be out here doing this service work, but I love you, and I'm going to write you a letter every fucking day. It's like, that kind of integrity, that's something that's, sadly, very rare, but also extraordinarily inspiring. And I think those little things, everybody's like, alright, what's his stance on this? What's his stance on this? It's like, for me, it's like, what is he modeling to the rest of the world? What is the example? Because most people, we learn based on imitation, right? So, if we have our political leaders, the people who are on the news every fucking day and they're being derogatory, or they're being divisive, or they're being inflammatory, or they're being polarizing, or they're being rude. I actually literally saw when Trump was president. And I'm not anti, I'm not anti all things about Trump. That's not my nature. But what I did see is, he modeled being rude to people at the very least, right? And what I saw was other people starting to model that same level of rudeness, and being like, since when did you talk to other people or about other people like that? It actually created something that was far beyond the policies and the difference, and of course, we can fairly criticize a lot of that if we wanted to, but that's not the point. The point is, people model character, like we model the character of our parents. You model the character of those who are in the forefront, the leaders. I mean, that's the idea of a role model. I mean, that's where a role model. It's like, how do we actually exist in society and our family? And I think people are under indexing the importance of that when they're looking at a candidate like Bobby.
DEL: Yeah, I agree. I mean, just for a moment on Trump, because I think that there's some things about Trump. When he got elected, the one thing that I thought was, and I hadn't voted for him at that moment, but I felt this sense of real relief that, clearly, this was not the guy the machine wanted, right? And I was questioning whether we had a democracy any longer or that our votes mattered. And to me in that moment, I said, "Oh, my God, our votes matter." This guy is not supposed to be here. That I know for sure. And so, on that level alone, it gave me hope that this system in America still works. I think what's interesting about Trump too, and I remember once sort of having an experiment where I tried to watch one of his State of the Unions, and most of us, like God, the way he uses this lack of language skills, it's really hard to get through. But I was like, most of what this guy is saying as a policy, I actually find that I agree with. I just hate the way it's being delivered.
AUBREY: Yes.
DEL: It's really difficult. And what's interesting about it is, he knows that. He is a genius in that he knew that negativity, that attacks upon him, is free press. And he really worked with that. And he's using a model that I understand very well, because I've been attacked a lot for the vaccine work that I do, and there's a way to use that as fuel. And, it's the old adage, there's no such thing as bad press. And so, he made himself the only thing anyone was talking about. When it was him and Hillary Clinton, this is sort of our weakness. We all as a society really have to get over this. I remember watching my Face. I was making "Vaxxed", the movie that puts me in the middle of this whole conversation. At the time, I was sitting in a basement here in Austin, Texas, with Dr. Andrew Wakefield. But my Facebook was just constantly just, "Oh my god, did you see what this guy said?" Because I was a liberal, a staunch, progressive liberal in that moment. So, every one of my friends was liberal, and all they did all day, just, "Look at the last thing Trump said. This guy's crazy. He's a lunatic." All day, all day. It's all I saw. Never a quote from Bernie Sanders. Never a quote from Hillary Clinton. I just thought this guy's going to win, because it's all we're focused on. He's all we know. But the point being is, he used that negativity, he knew how to use it. And I actually do think he finally broke the scale. He finally found a point where he created so much negativity, there actually was such a thing as bad press. He pushed that to a level no one ever has before. And I've got to give him credit for recognizing it as a mechanism. But now for those that are upset with how he's being treated, he's landed exactly where you land when you're playing the game that way. I tend to look at people and think they mostly mean well, I think he cares about the country. He thinks he's trying to do what's right. But he is now wallowing in the sort of bile that he used as fuel. And so, what I think spectacular about Robert Kennedy is that he is speaking to what we really dreamed. You put out this beautiful post today, when we look at these capitals, when were raised with this appreciation for our country, that we represent liberty and freedom and love and expansion and openness and connection with everyone. We are every race, we're every creed, we're every sexual decision you might have, and we stand together as a nation. I think we all feel like that was sort of robbed. Where did we lose that? And as people are starting to listen to how Kennedy is talking about the subjects, how he's addressing them, how it is so well educated, it is so honest and clear but coming from a place of, also, appreciating that I'm intelligent enough to know what he's talking about. Instead of--
AUBREY: Condescending and coddling.
DEL: He's not trying to put it on a bumper sticker, because everyone's too stupid understand this. He's really reaching to his confidence in us to say, there's a lot behind this Ukraine war, let's go into the history of it. Let's look at what brings us here this moment, be honest about it. Let's ask ourselves the hard questions. It's what his father did, and he's said that many times. And I think what is going to really be awesome to watch is how many of us in America want a nobility, we want a sense of duty and purpose. And we want a love of our people, all of us, back as our leader.
AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, just to kind of wrap up the thoughts on Trump. So, I agree with you. I think Trump went way too far. I think it's just his nature. Actually, part of it might have been strategic, but also part of it is just is, it's his nature. But what I see happening now is then the response, the anti-Trump movement, also went too far. And I think he's actually benefiting from that right now. Like all of the litigation that's against him. And people are starting to realize, like, whoa, we all are going too far. And it's actually helping him now, how much, where he's a little more quiet, but everybody else is attacking him. And I wonder also, if there's some of that, some of the momentum that we're seeing behind Robert's candidacy, he's also getting truly unfairly attacked. He has been for a long time. But now it's rising into public attention, and getting a lot of attention actually. And I think that may actually be something that helps propel him as well, is because we have a sense in our body, the word would be anthro-ontologically. So like, what we feel is real, ontological, what we feel is real, anthropos, in our own body. We feel it, it's like we're a tuning instrument. And when we feel that, like, this isn't right, we have a sense of that somewhere deep down that lives in us. It's connected to the field of value itself. And I think we see when things don't feel just, when people are being treated unjustly. And we can get confused for a while and we can scapegoat someone, we can dehumanize them, we can come up with all of these reasons to justify what's happening. But when you actually start to feel it, you understand. And I think that's what's interesting about where we're at right now is we do have to, obviously, Biden is the sitting president. So you have to say he's the leading candidate, but it really feels like the energy right now publicly is all around Trump, and all around Bobby. And it's just interesting to note that those are the people that I think the country feels like, both of these people are being unfairly attacked. And look, if that moment comes where Bobby wins the primary and there's a debate, I mean, we're going to see a stark contrast in character. And I really believe that's what we'll see. I pray for that moment to come because that means that he's made it through this first very difficult hurdle to make it through the primary.
DEL: I think what we have to put our focus on right now is sort of the national corruption of bureaucracy, the swamp that really, we all recognize now. And what I think--
AUBREY: That was another thing that people liked about Trump is he named it the swamp.
DEL: Yeah, he did.
AUBREY: He named it swamp. I don't think any swamps were actually harmed during his presidency. No swamps were drained.
DEL: Swamps were replaced by sewage.
AUBREY: Yeah, swamp water levels remain constant. There was no draining of any swamp. So, just for people who are swamp fans, don't worry, no swamps were harmed during his presidency.
DEL: But I say that because I think what I'd like to say to democrats and liberals out there, and I'm still a card carrying liberal, but I was never planning on ever voting that way. Again, I was so disenfranchised. And I think we have a moment where so many of us are so jaded that we've just given up any hope that this system can work for us. With this move, the DNC right now is actually playing, I think, a very, very dangerous game. I think this political system, I know we both want to sort of get off Trump, because that's not what this is about. But I believe that the DNC and the powers that be in this administration know full well that they've catapulted Trump into a mythical space by these attacks on him, the accusations, the arrests of him. This is on purpose. It's not an accident. They want him to be the candidate they're against. And it's a super, super dangerous game that we're all pawns in right now. They continue to fuel this Trump derangement syndrome. We're blind to how dangerous this is. And then you think not only you promoting this person that many of us think lacks sort of the candor and grace that is necessary at this time, but also--
AUBREY: Well, maybe he has the candor, but he certainly doesn't have the grace.
DEL: Yeah, he doesn't have the grace. And I would say, look, to his benefit, he's the only president in my lifetime that didn't start another war, and looks like he's pulling us out of wars. And so, I have to hand him that. But do I think he's capable of stopping this World War III that is being fueled at the moment? Do I want him at the negotiation table at this height--
AUBREY: No, he's leaving gasoline in matches.
DEL: It's nerve racking.
AUBREY: He's leaving gasoline in matches. So, the way I see it, from like if I really zoom out, eagles out vision, it's like, if we elect him, there's some compulsion that we need things to explode further. Destruction for creation. There is a prayer, a chant that I learned when I was in my darkness retreat. It was run by a woman of the Hindu faith. And she would bring us in with our mind folds on in the dark. She would sing a song full of rapture, and the song was basically, Shiva destroys so Brahma creates. Shiva destroys, so Brahma creates. And it was talking about this cycle of destruction for creation. And while I pray that we had enough destruction, and like, alright, is this enough for y'all? Because if it's not, let's get Trump in here. There'll be surely more destruction, and it doesn't even matter about his policies. Just the whole country's going to explode in their own polarity and divisiveness. And if we need that, all right, we need that. But I hope we don't need that. I hope we've had enough of that already.
DEL: Me too. Look, God will decide. I mean, I truly believe we are all just vessels here. We have to speak our truth, we have to stand up for what we believe in. And that's what we're doing here. I'm gravely concerned that there's the potential that this could be the last president of the United States of America. I think that there are enough issues hanging in the balance right now that really threaten this dream, this experiment of the United States of America, this idea of really keeping government at bay and letting people celebrate their independence, and trying to develop a system where you're innocent until proven guilty, where you walk in power. This constitution of ours does not dictate what we do. It dictates what our government's allowed to do to us. It holds our government back and says we are endowed with rights by God that supersedes all government power. And there's this balance that is so close to being lost now. I think one of the major issues that Bobby's dealing with is censorship. The idea that we think it's okay to destroy the First Amendment, that there are people that have the dangerous thoughts or dangerous ideas that cannot be spread. The amount of people that are now carrying that in the United States of America is horrifying. It really is horrifying. And this has been tested throughout time. There have been Jewish people that have said, "Look, I am totally against that Nazi March that's happening in downtown wherever in America," but it is free speech. There's been judges and lawyers that have weighed in on this. Now all of a sudden because you have questions about a vaccine that's being rushed out to the public without proper safety testing, that is something that the world should not be allowed to hear. I mean, really to me the bar has been lowered so much on this threshold of speech. Then you look at AI and what AI is capable of. Central digital banking systems that will let the government decide what my dollar that I earned myself, what I'm allowed to spend it on. These things, they're not figments of our imagination. They're not conspiracy theories. They're not 20 years down the road, we're no longer saying, God, I hope my children, my grandchildren make the right choice there. It's literally our choice right now. Most of these things that are in place that we watched, attempted during the pandemic; tracking system, vaccine tracking systems. Now they're talking about can they make this cell phone track my carbon credits? We look at China. The things that I say in public, am I speaking out against my government? People can't get on trains in China, just simply because they ran a journal article that spoke out against the government in some way. They've been demoted to a place where they can't travel. All of these technologies are sitting there. The wrong leader right now, four more years of anyone that opens a door to any of those ideas, which I'm sad to say Biden is. He's opened a door to all of these ideas. Four more years of that--
AUBREY: Wait, are you sure he can open a door?
DEL: No, it's being opened for him. They're doing their best to make sure he doesn't trip as he goes through it. But really, I think so many generations always think, oh, this is the moment that was prophesied. And maybe we're that generation. Maybe we're just fools, and it's all going to be fine 20 years down the road--
AUBREY: But we got a lot of evidence that this is that time. I think we can kind of feel it. And I think you're right, though, to name that this kind of apocalypse idea and impulse is found in every generation. And I guess there was an argument with nuclear proliferation that they had a good reason to believe it then. And we've kind of gotten over that mostly, although there's little flare ups, as Russia is engaged in different war activities, etc. But right now, there's just so many different vectors. There's so many different vectors that are happening. And we need somebody who cannot just think in policy, but think in nuance, and actually say, what's the blue team want? What's the red team want? Which are the corporate sponsors that have supported this campaign and will continue to support it? What do they want? It's like, alright, how do I sort out this issue in the best, most nuanced way possible? I was reading the comments today on my posts, which are overwhelmingly positive. I think both of us have been surprised about the positivity that's come out from when we speak about RFK's presidency. But one of them was like, well, he's going to lose half of the country when he draws the line on abortion. And it's like, alright, I understand what you're saying. There eventually has to be a law that's made. And I haven't talked to Bobby about his stance, and that's not the point here. But the point is that this whole idea of drawing a line is like, it's really the wrong idea. I think it's people who are discarding the nuance that's necessary to even approach and grapple with such a complicated situation.
DEL: Yeah.
AUBREY: And it's like, that's what we're missing. We're missing the nuance of dialogue being modeled where everybody feels heard. And somebody is saying, hey, guess what, life and choice are both values in the field of value, and we need to actually bring them both into the field of value, and then weigh them against each other. Not to say, I'm life, I'm choice. That doesn't make any sense. What about eight-and-a-half month abortion? Is anybody really pounding the pavement, like, that's cool? No, probably not. Maybe a few on the very fringe. And then is anybody like the other way, saying like, in the situation of rape that's caught early. Yeah, maybe a few say life all the way no matter what. But like, most people have a really nuanced feeling of that. But we're being cattle herded into one way or the other with weaponized language, that's meaning if you're this, then you're not that. If your black lives matter, it means you're not all lives matter. If you're all lives matter, then you're not black lives matter. When actually both of those things, if you really look at it, it's nonsensical. Of course, both matter, but the words are weaponized, so it means that you're choosing a team or a side. And I think the only way through is to actually deweaponize language, step into the field of nuance, raise all of the values up together, address all of the concerns. That must happen for us to navigate this chapel perilous. From the Odyssey, we're between Scylla and Charybdis, the rock and the hard place, the whirlpool and the merciless crags. And we have to have a skilled sailor that can navigate us through, making real time decisions in moments. And that's what I feel like Robert will do, is he'll make the nuanced decisions, the best decisions possible. And maybe there's no way to stop the ship from hitting the rocks. But at least we have a captain that we know like, all right, if we're going down, I trust you to be the captain. And we'll go down on the ship together.
DEL: I think what I love about Kennedy is, it's an experiment what he's trying to do. What he's trying to do is see if there is still an idea, there's still a sense and side of us that you could run a campaign on, what do we all agree on? We've been trained like rats to just get that dopamine hit over our rage and our offense, they finally found the thing that I'm against, and that one thing makes him off the record for me. And every one of us has that. The media looks for that, to trigger that. We are in the end times of victim consciousness. Everything we are told is our identity now, is what makes us a victim. It's what separates me from you. We may have common ground, but that's not what I'm supposed to talk about. I have a different sexual perspective, or I have a different color, or we're a different religion, whatever it is, we have a different perspective of global warming. They're going to find that thing to make sure that you and I can't talk to each other. I come from media. That is what it's designed to do. It's the easier hit. It's the easier dopamine rush, and it gets you more ratings. And what Kennedy is trying to do is say--
AUBREY: And the algorithm. It's not just big media. We've got to look at small media, doing the same thing with the way that they algorithmically show you what's in your feed. So it's not only CBS and CNN and MSNBC and Fox. Yeah, all right, that's pretty obvious what they're up to. But it's happening in subtle ways behind the scenes by what's putting us, what kind of mindset, what kind of bubble we're being placed in based on these algorithmic acts, which actually, I think they're just letting the system and the AI of the systems, whatever version of AI they're running in the algorithms, actually just do what works. And I think if we start changing our own behavior, and our own consciousness, we'll start retraining what those algorithms work. Or if the big players don't step up, then a new player will emerge, that if we demand it by our actions, vote with our attention, attention is the commodity of all prizes. Because attention can be monetized by commercials and ads, and then the purchase of products. So, if we give our attention to different things, we'll start to retrain the system. Even what we watch on the news, or don't watch on the news, what we tune into. Our attention is a precious commodity, and it's like a vote that we're voting with every single day. And that vote changes the world.
DEL: Yeah, I mean, I'm doing it to myself. I find myself clicking on things. And I'm trying to, like, take a moment to say, dude, they got you. That was gross. Did you just fall for that again? Wake up, you're asleep. This is you are, you're making decisions about who you are to some AI system that is judging you, and you're not conscious about it. That's how it's all working. We've got to get conscious, we've got to say, you know what, ooh, that headline is screaming at me but it's that trigger space. I don't want to be giving my attention anymore. I said when we were together at a dinner recently, when Robert Kennedy Jr. walks Into that White House as president of the United States, the only way he will be there is that we in humanity, we evolved. That we actually got out of the shackles that we're in, that are dictating our existence. We're screaming as though it's being done to us but we're doing it to ourselves. Every choice we're making every day is imprisoning ourselves, our hatred, our division, our need to feel vindicated or bigger or better than someone else because I am more evolved in some way. Robert Kennedy Jr. doesn't get elected by those people. He's being elected by people that are actually consciously saying, you know what, I'm tired of being triggered. I actually want to love my neighbor, and want to love my brother. It's like a football game. We've all been in sports on some level. We don't all agree here, right? We have different religions, we have different things that get us up in the morning. But today, this is about standing for this team. It's about being together and working together and do your job, get out of each other's crap. Just do my job, hold my place in society here, be a good person. And I know you're doing your best to be a good person too. I'm going to stop judging you. I'm going to stop focusing on what we disagree on. But focusing on what we agree on. Actually, I did this experiment with my cousin. I have a very liberal family. He was the first one to jump ship. Back during like George Bush days, he was taking his kids down to the border to be like minutemen. I mean, there was no one in my family that could talk to him. Like, "Oh, my God, he's got his kids carrying automatic rifles and blocking the border. He's totally lost his mind." And I was in that camp. And one day, I was passing through New York, and I was like, "Hey, Norman, let's get together." I went over and I said, I want to try something. Because at that moment, I was a bleeding heart, loudmouth, ripping liberal progressive. I said, I want to try and have a conversation with you, and here's the rules. We can talk about all the issues of the world. The only thing I don't want to hear is, I won't say it. You don't say who we think is doing. There's no who. We don't get to talk politics, we don't get to talk news agencies. Let's just talk policy. What are your thoughts on Iraq War? And I was shocked. He said, I think that the Iraq war is just the Bush family trying to own all the pipes that all the oil is moving through, and all of those lackeys, so that they get rich and America gets fucked. I was like, holy shit, it's the same perspective I have. And we just went through it. And by the end of a two-hour conversation, I said, "Norm, do you realize that we agree on at least 80% of the issues of the world? The only thing that has got us at each other's throats and unable to have a conversation, is what news agency is telling us who's causing these problems." And they don't want us to have this conversation. Because if we do, we are a United States of America. And we are that great nation. This is what is so brilliant about this experiment, is that Robert Kennedy is trying to appeal to us to start talking about what makes us great, what do we agree on? What do we share as values? And once we have spent all the effort and timing, yes, it's going to take effort. To make that list, then maybe go over to our negative attributes list and say, is there something in this common ground that can feed into a more elevated dialogue about these things that we're disagreeing?
AUBREY: Yeah. It reminds me of one of the kind of things that emerged as we start to recognize the real existential crises that we're facing is, there's this kind of doomsday prepper mentality, where it's like, alright, we're going to fortify our compound, we're going to get our food. And I understand that. We've got to take care of our families, I understand that impulse. But then at the same time, what about the hungry people at our gate who didn't prepare? What are we going to do? We're going to say, starve, "Just starve, neighbor"? No, we're not going to do that. We're going to share what we have with our people. And I think that's ultimately what will emerge. I'm not saying like, don't prepare and whatever. And don't protect your family. I understand all those impulses. But even within that, there's this idea that the only thing that matters is my team. The only thing that matters is my inner circle of my tribe. And it's this kind of form of tribalism, where it can be included and also transcended. And I think sports are a great example of including the viciousness of competition and the identification of a team, but then transcending it. And I saw that probably never more clearly when I lived in Brisbane, Australia for six months, and I watched a lot of rugby. There is rugby at all kinds of different levels. They would go out and they would smash against each other, even do ruthless things, like rake their cleats across somebody holding the ball too long. Brutal. But then they would all go to the same pub, and they would all drink beer. Even if someone was being that kind of ruthless out there, they'd like clash a drink and like, "You're a good cunt," which was like, part loving word in Australia, and part also like, and they would just have a drink about it and they realize like, we're bound by the actual field itself, by the field of play. There's a deep per field underneath this, we're all rugby players, we're all Aussies. We can be vicious in this one moment, in this defined finite game. But actually, we recognize, we include that and transcend it to recognize the infinite game we're playing, the larger field that's at play. And that's something that I think we need to keep in mind. We're not trying to eradicate all competition, all debate, all difference of opinion. This is a context for our diversity that's bound by a common field, by the recognition of something greater. And as Nietzsche said, we've killed God, meaning we've killed value, we've killed the source of the field itself. And you don't have to use the word God, you can use the field, you can use source, you can use the universe, you can use Earth. Whatever you want to use as that word. But remembering that we're part of this common field, and whatever nation we're in, whatever political side we're in, we have to remember the field or we're actually going to destroy the whole field and all teams lose. Like the only way that both rugby teams lose is someone sets fire to the pitch. Then no rugby happens ever again. And that's kind of the place we're in, we're being pressed into a deeper understanding of the field.
DEL: Yeah, I was just at a wedding on Saturday. And the officiant said, there's going to be those difficult times. In every marriage, they always exist. Remembering those times to go back to what you love about the person, focus on the good in them, focus on all the things that you love, because it's so easy to focus on the negative. In many ways, this marriage of humanity and love and liberty and the pursuit of happiness is going through a divorce, it's going to destroy everything that we know and love. If we cannot get back to recognizing we still love each other. There's so much we should see in each other right now, instead of everything is only focusing on the negative attributes we see. I mean, I don't want to be repetitive about this. But it really is a serious problem for us. And I think about sports. I think about MMA fighting. Always one of my favorite things about it, they'll taunt each other at the weigh-in, it looks like they're ready to kill each other. They go out there literally try to kill each other, it appears to me, I've never been an MMA fighter. So I don't know what it's like to be in that moment. But the fight is over, and they hug each other, crying. It's amazing. And one of the things, because I do a lot of work in Washington DC, it's very difficult dealing with politicians. But one thing that we really don't know is that is kind of how politics works. They all scream and yell at each other, whatever, get in front of news cameras, but they're all at old Abbott's Grill, having drinks and steaks with each other in the evening. People can say whatever they want, they're all on the same team. But what bothers me is they don't show that part of the politics to the people. They don't show that they actually go and laugh and hang out with each other. It's bizarre to see it. It shouldn't be bizarre. If we saw that in our news, we saw that there are actually moments where these two teams do get together, they laugh, they realize this is all some sort of big game, and we're a joke, because they're not being honest with us. I wish that the media would at least show that that does exist. It is happening. Because we are being torn apart as though these people are just sort of fighting for everything. And they're not. It's more of a game than we realize.
AUBREY: And a very high stakes game.
DEL: Very high stakes.
AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, the only way it cuts through all of that is the truth. You can look at politics, but also, people ask me, if you could interview one person from history, who would it be? It's the easiest answer in the world, and it would be Jesus. Easily. I don't hesitate with that answer. Because what I would want to ask him, be like, hey, man, what was your life like? What was your sex life like? What did you do in the desert? How was it when you spent those 40 days grappling with the darkness? What did you find? What did you see? What did you see within yourself? Because I've understand the self, as Carl Jung's quote says, that your leaves only stretch to heaven to the degree that your roots reach down to hell. And so, what was hell like? What was hell like for you when you were going through that? The humanization of it. So we wear these, What would Jesus Do? And I say we collectively as the people who do, but you wear those What would Jesus Do little lanyard silicone bracelets, but we don't know. We have some stories that were written many years later, and largely probably manipulated by the powers that be, but like, what was it really like, man? Because obviously, he achieved a level of consciousness, we call it Christ consciousness. He achieved the level of the Christ. But what was it like being you, man? Being the dude from Nazareth, like, where did you go? Did you see some mystery schools along the way? What other philosophies inspired you to feel this? What was your relationship with the Hebrew faith? All of these questions. We have a very limited window on this person that we're modeling ourselves after. And that's part of the problem. And one of the things that I see in this candidacy is we're getting led into his life. He just made a post. And again, this podcast will come out when it comes out. So it'd be like a month old or whatever. But he made a post where he's in his car with his dog on Father's Day. And people were asking, "Why aren't you wearing a seatbelt?" And he shows his dog, and he calls his dog Attila. Because his dog destroys seatbelt--
DEL: Yeah, eats them.
AUBREY: Eats them, eats the seat belt holders. And he's like, replaced them 20 times. He's like, look, this car, I just drive safely when I go to this place--
DEL: And hike with the dog, this is my dog, hiding in the car, this is all it is.
AUBREY: This is my dog car, and he shows the seatbelt thing. And it's like, oh, this is like real life. You have a dog that eats fucking seatbelt receptacles. Okay.
DEL: And you might judge me, it's a perfect metaphor, right? You might judge me driving by that Robert Kennedy Jr. is a law breaker. He doesn't wear his seatbelt, he's giving the wrong impression to everybody out there. But you're not aware of the actual situation. He has a dog, he's replaced it 20 times, he's given up on it. I only drive this car five blocks to my hiking spot. And if you don't want to take the risk of not being in a seatbelt car, don't sit in my car. And no, Cheryl doesn't ride in this car. It really points to, we make judgments of each other without any understanding of what is lying beneath that, what is the real story? We haven't walked a mile in that person's shoes. It's sort of that old adage, these are the things that make a difference. It's what makes him so awesome, too, is the fact that he's being transparent with these issues. It's dangerous. I mean, he knows putting that out, someone's going to say, "My God, you just said to all the children we're trying to teach to wear their seatbelt, that it's okay to not wear a seatbelt." And I think it's fantastic.
AUBREY: Yeah, me too. So, I want to talk about the way that psychologically, you've personally dealt with attacks. Because a lot of people who, if you are feeling this, and you're like, man, I'd really like to support Bobby, I'd really like to support something that I believe in that's unpopular. We experienced that during the whole COVID pandemic, we experienced how vicious people were when you started to speak your opinion. What do you do? How do you personally respond? Because it's hard to get to a point where, and I've not found that you can be callous to the negative without being callous to the positive. So, there's a place of retraction where you can go to a place of, I don't care about what anybody says, it's a place of safe neutrality where you discard everybody. But that doesn't quite feel right either. So how do you respond to the attacks and to the negativity?
DEL: Yeah, there's several ways I could answer that. A lot of it is how do you embrace your own ego structure? Something that I think a lot about. I will say that I am not a religious person, I'm a spiritual person. So, just the Jesus thing. I think religion has messed up that story in many ways. And I sort of want to go back and rehash that. If you read the words of Jesus, what I know this guy did is he triggered a lot of people. And I always try to imagine if he came back, what would that actually be like? I know every Christian is like, oh, my God, I would bow down, I'd be so psyched to see him. I'm pretty sure you would crucify him. I'm pretty sure--
AUBREY: There's a very good chance the first thing he would attack would be the Christian religion. I'm not saying, look, I'm not a scholar, I don't know that for sure.
DEL: No, we don't know for sure.
AUBREY: But fundamentally, it feels like there's been, and has been historically, the antithesis of what he stood for being exemplified in his name. And so, yeah, it's like, all right, what would actually happen? And that would be an interesting experiment.
DEL: Because I think the truth, and not to wax too much on this, but I think his main point was judge not that you'd be not judged. You do not have the capability of judging. All the nuance that is in life, you're not capable of comprehending it. So I would imagine, I'm going to probably, I'm sure I'm going to get someone in trouble here. When I imagine it, I think Jesus would come back, probably throw his arm around some transgender person and say, you don't have the right to judge this person. And then he'd go over to a machine-gun-owning gun owner and say, you don't have the right to judge this person. I stand with both these people, because that's what he did. When I read the Bible, that's what he did. What he picked was who you think it's okay to judge, the prostitute in the room, lest you have no sin, then you do not get to cast the first stone. That is just to sort of push on that a little bit. And so, I think about those things as I think about attacks on me, or the judgments on me. What I know is that if you're attacking me, you just simply don't actually understand what I'm doing. I don't need to take it personally. In some ways, I see those as though a child is attacking me. If my daughter at nine years old challenges me to something, it's not really that much of a challenge, right? I'm going to try and be nice, I'm going to try and help you understand what you're not understanding about all the things you don't see, and the conversation we just had, or why I'm making the decision I am. I mostly see that in this space. For me, my wheelhouse is this vaccine space. I know for a fact I have read more studies on vaccines, how they got approved, what they went through. I had the number one most successful nonprofit, it's suing the government and getting these details. We have the Pfizer data from the COVID trials, because of my legal work, my legal team. We have the V-safe data from the CDC, we're now getting the Moderna data, all of that. This is what I do. So, if a doctor is attacking me, I simply think, oh, it's really unfortunate that you're wearing a lab coat and people trust you. But you haven't read what I've read, you don't really actually know what you're talking about. And we're seeing a moment where many leading authorities, Dr. Peter McCall, the leading heart doctor in the world has come over to my direction. It's because he started reading. Dr. Robert Malone who invented the mRNA technology is now, it's not because I'm right, have some great, it's the truth. You just haven't seen it. And so, it would be foolish for me to engage and get angry when all I'm dealing with is a lack of knowledge of someone that hasn't done the appropriate research, and doesn't actually know what they're talking about. But I will say this, because what you're talking about is how do we get people to be not afraid for the attacks that will come by saying publicly, I'm supporting Robert Kennedy Jr. or anything in their lives that may be controversial, is a deeply held belief that they would love to come out of the closet and share, but are afraid what other people would think. And this is something that my parents were really focused on with me. I mean, I really was raised with sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you. That phrase is gone. We don't live in that society anymore. We now live, all words hurt, they're punishing, they're brutal. And you should hate anyone that uses bad words against you. But I will say this, this is what carries me is it really comes down to story when I had, and I don't know how many of your viewers really, I don't want to tell the whole story of how I got involved with making "Vaxxed" and what that was about. But there's a moment where I had prayed, I wanted to tell this whistleblower story, I didn't know what was going on with it. And in an outrageous set of what I would call miracles, someone could just say they're coincidences within days of that prayer, that this is a story I want to be a part of. I find myself in the basement of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who had been working on a documentary about this whistleblower. I had no idea he had, and I'm watching his documentary. And I realized in that moment, it was a real epiphany moment, that this documentary will be seen by nobody in the world. It was important. It had 10,000 documents backing up proof that the CDC was committing fraud in the vaccine safety studies. It was all there. But it was so scientific. Nobody in the world was going to watch it. And I realized in that moment, a kid that never got vaccinated myself, I was raised with alternate health. My mom's like, "Why are you working on a medical talk show? You've never been to a doctor in your life?" I was like, "I don't know, mom. But it's really cool. I'm kind of like this trojan horse in here. I'm challenging the medical establishment with the shows I'm doing. And I'm the top rated producer on the show. I don't know what's going on." And in that moment, I realized, oh my God, I think I was being trained for this moment. I'd always known there was something that I felt like I was supposed to do, and here it is. And my father, my parents, my dad was always like, go out and change the world, make a difference in the world. So he's the first, I actually called my wife, said I'm about to ruin my television career, and I'm going to get involved with this documentary. She said, okay, brilliant. Could not be here without her support, which is a huge part of it. But I called my father, thinking this is it, he's going to be so proud of me. In all these years, I'm now 40 years old, took forever to get here, found my thing. And I said, I'm going to make this documentary working with Dr. Andrew Wakefield, probably the most controversial doctor in the world on vaccines. My dad said, "Don't do it." I was like, what? He's like, "Don't do it. Del, I feel like I put you up to this. I feel like I told you, you can make a difference in the world and now you're about to do something that's going to destroy everything you've worked on." I think he said, I think I told you, also there are moments you should just lay low, you should just let something pass by. Don't be the target. Don't let the crosshairs land on you where you become the focus of a problem you can't fix. This is what he said. And I remember the moment he said, lay low. I'm on the phone, this really happened. It's such a like time stops moment. I pictured myself crouching down in this tall grass. And I start seeing like these Nazis marching on a dirt road. Then I hear tanks and the rumbling of the tank wheels on the dirt road and the side by side motorcycle. All images I got from movies. And I'm crouching down in the grass hiding. And right when I imagined that, all the footsteps, everything's going to disappear in the distance, they didn't. I started hearing them crunching through the sticks and the leaves all around me. And I realized they knew I was there, they were surrounding me. And I'm on the phone with my dad. All of this hit me and I said, "Dad, you also made a statement when we were growing up. You would say to us, if anyone ever abducts you, if you're ever grabbed and yanked into a car..." I remember he started this when I was three years old. He said, "You take your first opportunity, you kick, you scream, you break, whatever it takes, but you give everything you've got in escaping." And he would say, "Do you hear me? Did you hear what I said?" I said, "Yeah, take your best opportunity when you can--" He's like, "No, I didn't say your best opportunity. I said your first opportunity, there is a difference. You must realize." He said, "My dad was in the army." He said, "We were taught that the longer your opponent, the longer they have you, the better they have you."
AUBREY: Yeah.
DEL: The moment you realize you're had, you've got to get out as quickly as you can. I said, "Similarly, Dad, we are fucking surrounded. All the problems that we said at the beginning of this conversation are coming at us from all sides. They know where we live, they're tracking every damn thing we're doing." And so, to all those people that are afraid to stand for the truth, afraid of what's going to happen, I want to say to you, you are surrounded, you are kneeling down in grass, as though somehow if I don't talk about it, this is all going to go away. It's not going away. They're moving in from every direction. So, the only thing an intelligent person does in that moment is doesn't continue to hide, because the inevitable outcome is only they have you, you're imprisoned, and everything you dreamed about the future of your life is gone. The moment you realize that is what you're living in, you stand up in that grass, you take a moment to look at what's coming at you, you find the weakest part of that circle, you charge it and you fight with everything you've got. And that's how I deal with this. I don't care what people say to me, I realize the moment I'm living in. I'm living in the most important moment humanity's ever had. Everything our Founding Fathers fought for, their life at risk. How do they do that? How does George Washington cross the Potomac when they're dying of smallpox and their toes are falling off? I'll tell you why. I'll tell you how. Because he realizes if he doesn't, he's fucked anyway. So why not give it everything you have?

AUBREY: Yeah. There's something that reliably in every heroic movie, like I can watch "The Notebook" and I may not shed a tear. And it's not because I'm not compassionate for the love story, and star crossed lovers whole story, of course, I'm a poet. I'm sensitive to that stuff. But it's not what's going to get me in a moment where all the emotions come forward. It's when I see a hero who is willing to stand like that, whether it's William Wallace in "Braveheart" or Leonidas in "300", I can't watch that movie, even if it's the 50th time I watch it, without tears coming. Because I recognize that that's me too. That's me too. I would do the same thing. The tears come as a remembering of the nature of our true character, and that's why the tears are coming now when I hear you say that, because I know that to be true. And we can forget it, we can pretend that nothing is happening and we can pretend that it's all going to be alright. But when we actually really see what's happening and understand our purpose and then also, understand the continuity of our life. Like William Wallace's actions. Yeah, he was ruthlessly tortured and killed and he didn't win. But Robert the Bruce came back and finished what he started. And if he didn't start that, it would have been a whole different story. When you also understand the continuity of your life, that this is one of your lives, of many lives, and for those people who doubt reincarnation is a real thing, look at the studies out of University of Virginia, please. This is not an idea from some Eastern religion. This is now documented, and it's a real thing. So you see that there's this continuity of our life, and we're going to keep coming. We're just going to keep coming. And if this life, it doesn't work out, we're going to go back in that other place, whatever that other place is and look at the other souls, probably like we did 40 years ago, or however long, whatever your age is, where you had your soul pod and you're like, y'all ready to go? Y'all ready to write? Because there's this planet here that's so fucking beautiful. The Earth is just gorgeous. It's the best. Heaven is available right here in so many ways if we just opened her eyes to see it. It's so beautiful. It's so good. So you're sitting there going, do you want to risk everything to save this planet? To save this great mother? Of course.
DEL: Of course.
AUBREY: Of course you would. And we're in that moment, and it's about not looking away at this point. Not looking away from who you are, and not looking away from what you're standing for. Like really look at it, and then find that hero that emerges inside yourself. And then as you said, all the arrows that come, you can be like Leonidas's lieutenant when they say our arrows will blot out the sun, and he just smiles and looks at his leader and says, "So we'll fight in the shade." So we'll fight in the shade. If that's the way our life is, as the Lakota used to say, hoka hey, today is a good day to die.
DEL: That's it.
AUBREY: Today is a good day to die. And I've always, since the moment I heard that teaching, I was like, that's how I want to live. And to be that also requires that you clean up all of your business. Clean up all your business. Make sure that you tell everybody who you love how much you love them. Make sure that you share as much as you have. Don't hide it all in there. But lay it all out there, like love, experience life too. Treasure this beautiful world. Do all of those things so that when that hoka hey moment, that let's go moment comes, you have no regrets. And you can look at it and be like, today is a good day to die. And you can look at your brothers and your sisters and your family and your children, and you can just smile and just say, "All right, if this is it, this is it." We've lost that. Many of us have lost that and we're finding it again. And how beautiful. There wouldn't be another time that I would ever want to be alive than right now. Because not only do we have access to all of the beauty, but we have a real reason to stand. A real reason to stand.
DEL: Like a purpose.
AUBREY: We have a purpose.
DEL: Yeah. One of the things that I'm trying to correct, I speak all over the country and even sometimes outside of the country, and the people that will walk up and say thank you for your sacrifice, I'm like, "Man, that is a bullshit line." It's something that you have been fed that somehow that Jesus sacrificed, like the Tao was a sacrifice. It was a painful ugly life somehow. And I said, I mean, I wish people could live in my shoes just for a day. In the shoes of someone that I see everything as opportunity, I see everything as a miracle. Even the things that go wrong, I'm like, this is all for my greater good. This is all moving me in the right direction. It's making me readjust. When I started seeing the world that way, that it's not against me, it's working to my benefit, it always does work to my benefit. There's no sacrifice here. I get to wake up passionate every single morning. I was a stoner as a kid. I could barely get out of bed. I was like, where's my life going to go? I wake up at four in the morning now with ideas, I can't go back to sleep. I got to get on my computer, I got to plan for the day, and I'm going until midnight because I can't stop. I'm so into all that is potential now. I see potential everywhere. And all it took was sort of really just deciding, I'm engaged. I have a purpose here, and it is so beautiful, this life. And I think people will think, oh well, you guys, your life is handed to you. I'm just going, well, no, the greatest pains in my life are the things I cherish the most. They're really, truly the greatest guiding functions. I don't think any of us can look in our rearview mirror, and look at, wow, look what I've achieved. When you try to think back, how did you get here, you don't really remember all the positive moments. You remember those tragic, horrific moments that reset your course and put you into a place that you're at now. And recognizing that, recognizing when it's coming, the pains coming, oh, this is going to be good. This one really hurts, it must be dynamic what's about to be opened up for me.
AUBREY: And again, going into this continuity of consciousness, and the eternal nature of our soul. And maybe it's not eternal in that it's forever, maybe at some point we do as the universe goes back and contracts after expansion, and we homogenize back into pure source, whatever. But the eternity of our life that extends beyond this life, I can just imagine looking back and being like, man, that Aubrey life, and just having a big smile from wherever that was, and just this warm feeling of like, man, that fucking Aubrey life, that dude he really lived, he tasted the food, he had the sex, he stood for what he believed in, he loved people along the way. He had amazing friends, he had amazing families, just that smile. And even if the end was a final, heroic stand, just as we look at the heroes in the movie, we'll look back at our own lives and be like, damn, good fucking job. Aubrey. You did it, man, you fucking did it. If we take that perspective of looking back at our life, like people do at the end of life, kind of life review, or an NDE life review, I was blessed that that was a part of my first psychedelic journey. I went to this place where I was outside of my body, and I got to look back at my life, like a classic NDE life review, and see all of the places where I fell from grace, and see all of the beauty that I had, and really have to hold that and look at it. So, I have this deep understanding of this phenomenon of life review. And I know and I put myself in that position at the end of my life, or even beyond the end of my life, looking back and being like, Aubrey, did you do it, bro? Did you enjoy it? Did you live? Did you fight? Did you do it, man? Did you be Aubrey? Did you be Aubrey all the way? And if that answer is yes, all the heavens will light up with my joy, from this life lived.
DEL: Yeah, it's everything. I mean there's so much I want to share on that. Just a weekend or so ago, I went to a meditating retreat, like I did a winter retreat with a bunch of men, male warriors, doing sweat lodges. We were doing breathwork, some shamanic breathwork and I got, man, that shit, you can really just trip out. And in the middle of it, I just thought, I was looking for pain, is there a guilt inside of me? I was like, man, I am so clear. I'm so happy to be alive right now. I like where I'm at. I like what's happening. I like what I'm involved in. It's not all good. There's problems but I'm sharing those problems to the person I had the problem with. I'm being honest, I'm open about it. And what else can we be? And it's funny you brought up that it's a good day to die. I actually was on the doctors once when they asked this, you never get rattled, we want to talk about you on the show. I was producing the show. Some other producer was like, "I want to bring you on this show." And they said, how do you live that you're so calm in the face of all the insanity around here? And I said, I believe in the old Indian proverb, it's a good day to die. And like, whoa, this is a doctor's show. We don't want to talk about death here. But I too share that same thought, and I have it every night. Was I good to my kids? Was I good to my wife? Did I speak my truth? And I really think for those people out there, for those, especially who have kids, and I think that makes you a little bit more passionate in this space. But our kids are watching us. I mean, I really have to take account of that. And people say, are you worried you might get killed in all this? And all these things. And the only thing I really think about is my children. Bringing more risk upon my family and those things. And then I think their incarnation, this lifetime chose to be here too. We all chose this experience that we're going through together. But I think, what do I want? Whenever it's going to be, whenever I die, what are my kids going to say about me? I want them to say dad is passionate, man. He got up believing what he was doing.
AUBREY: Look at what Bobby says about his dad. He doesn't have daddy issues. His dad was killed when he was what, 14 years old? It's not like he's working through the trauma, of course it was traumatic. There's trauma just everywhere you look in the Kennedy family, but when he talks about his father, he talks about his father with pride. And he talks about values, values which correlate to the Father, which I'm not making a religious claim there. I'm talking about the masculine principles of the universe, value itself, the pattern, patter. The pattern of value and structure of the whole cosmos. And he could see that yeah, sure, his father wasn't perfect, but he stood for value. So, his father modeled the Father. And so, when he talks about him, and when the imprint that that made, yeah, all right, he didn't get to go see his high school graduation. That sucks. I just lost my father this year. It sucks. But nonetheless, when I'm talking about my father at the start of this podcast, what am I talking about? I was talking about his integrity, talking about the values, about how he represented and modeled some aspect of the Father. And yeah, there was some shit that I got from him too. His own neurosis, and his own fears, and his own, sure, I got some of that. And I've been able to work through that. And sure, there were moments where he let his rage get the best of him. And sure, I've worked through all of that. But the parts about your dad that you can really say, “Dad, you showed me a window, a prism into what it is to be a father. Like really, you modeled something”. And I think that's also something for parents to consider. It's not about just kind of only just being there for the whole time, because being there is great, but if you leave an indelible impression, that this is how you live, my son, in the stories that can be told, that's the guiding principle that I think, I'm not a father yet, but that's exactly what I want to imprint for however long my life is upon my children. It's like, man, dad really showed me a glimpse at what the Father is all about.
DEL: If you don't leave that impression, who is? And then what am I doing there? I mean, there's so many people, that's why I talk about, and it's funny, this podcast will be later on. But yesterday was Father's Day, I thought about my dad all day. I was taking phone calls all day, totally missed calling, so I called him this morning. But yeah, I think that, we keep coming around to the honor of things. When you think about the spiritual life, I challenge myself, and I can get into trouble with the Christianity. My dad's a, I guess, what you'd call a new age minister. Brought in Course in miracles and things like that. And I grew up with friends that were Christian, saying that my dad was Satan, I'm Satan. I get attacked every once in a while in the work that I do that somehow my perspective of Christianity is off. I do see it differently. I don't think the point of these representations in many different religions, these prophets from many different languages and religions that are trying to speak to us, I don't think we're supposed to be sitting here whipping ourselves and saying, I'm a sinner, I'll never, I don't understand it. I don't understand what religion has done to that. I don't understand how that's what came out of, that we all have a cross on our wall, which is the demise of the human being, and we're not celebrating the resurrection, the ascension that rises above that, that sort of limits us in our physical body. I don't understand why I never hear in a church every time I go to check it out, Jesus says greater works than I have done, you shall do. If you have the faith of the grain of a mustard seed, you can move mountains. Where is that in his conversation?
AUBREY: Right.
DEL: To me, Jesus was not saying bow down and worship me and call yourself a sinner, you're a slug, you're a loser. That's where you need to be. What he was saying is, and if we got to interview him, I feel like he would say what we're saying here, life is spectacular. It's beautiful. Don't worry about those attacks on me, I got that handled. You should see how many people love me, you should feel the love I feel when I walk into the multitudes, when I can raise someone from the dead, and I can move people just because when they see me, they believe that I'm telling them the truth. I mean, all of that was, I think it was, I mean, I believe that there was representation. What would be the point otherwise, to just sit here and wait for one human being that can come back and fix this whole problem? I mean, let's say, we die and that's the only way we get to heaven. I'm in your neck of the woods, which is, heaven is in the midst of us. That's what Jesus says. Heaven is all around you.
AUBREY: The kingdom.
DEL: Do you have eyes to see it? You have ears to hear it? That's what you've got to be working on. Because if you die and all your stupidity, you take to the pearly gates there, what are they going to have to do? They're going to have to teach you how to be in heaven so you don't piss everyone else off, and annoy the shit out of them. Because you didn't get how to be a decent human being. So, where is that test ground where you learn how to be in heaven? This must be it. This is it. Get over the crowd, start figuring out how to love more, how to be there for everyone, how to stop judging your enemy, to pick up the person on the side of the road and be the Good Samaritan and not care where they come from or what they believe in. But you realize they're your brother, your sister, they're a child of God, too. And that's all that is really happening here. Try to be Christ-like. I mean, there are people that actually when I say that, they're like, "That's blasphemous." Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me that because every day, I'm going to make an attempt to embody as much as I can what I think I see in that story of a guy that was trying to be good to everybody. Yeah, I failed. And at the end of the day, when I check in on it, was it a good day to die? At least I can say, I tried. I can point out a couple of places I blew it, I let judgment get the best of me. So tomorrow, I get to try again. What I don't do though, is wallow in my sorrow, in my pain and my victimness, and my ugliness. I just don't see the benefit of that. We're so capable of beauty, and the more we focus on our beauty, the less the things that we do wrong or make mistakes that are actually there. Because it's attractive, we're attracted to it, we keep doing more in that space.
AUBREY: I was looking for it, because I don't have it memorized yet. But, the mystical Kabbalist teacher that I've been working with, Marc Gafni, he shared with me a phrase from the Old Testament that translates to God desires your heart. God desires your heart. That fundamental teaching is like, well, what does that mean? I mean, it means that He desires you to step into that heart-centered consciousness, and love. More than anything, more than all the rules, like your heart. The place, the source point, where we actually do know right from wrong, where value lives. Like your heart is the, it's the feeling tone of the universe. It's where we actually feel love. You can say, alright, everything is love. Sure, but how do you feel that? You feel that through the heart. This idea of getting back to heart-centered, it's also again, not to continue to go back to this. But I see that in Bobby. That's what comes through, is it's a heart consciousness. He's seeing value, he's seeing the world through the eyes of the heart, which is the eyes of the Christ. It is what the divine desires. It desires from us to step into our hearts. Then what would your heart do? What would your heart do in this situation? And yes, the mind and strategy, all of that is important. We can't ignore the 3D of the world and the power actually of our third eye opening, and our vision to be able to see how to navigate. All of that's important, but really coming back to that in the heart. And there's also, I can't help but share, after I did a podcast with Dr. Robert Gilbert, he shared a Rosicrucian model of the kind of forces that are at play in the cosmos. And as I let that sit in with me, I've started to kind of develop my own model of this kind of trinity of forces, that have some Rosicrucian kind of basis, which I was completely unaware of their model, but I was always feeling that there was something off with the Satan and Lucifer and Christ discussion. And they actually placed that as the Trinity. And they have their own explanations. I don't know if I agree with all their explanations, I'm feeling it. What I do know is, Satan appears, I believe, 13 times in the Bible. 11 times as a verb, as the opponent, or in opposition to Ha-satan, in opposition to. And then so I look at that, and I go, okay, I've discovered that there's a part of me that's in opposition to myself. It's in opposition to my highest calling. That is my inner Satan. My inner Satan is the opponent. It's what I've named the anti-me. The anti-me is constantly trying to fuck me up. It's constantly trying to degrade my own thinking, to draw me into fear, or jealousy, or all of this. This is my inner opponent. It's not an external, maybe yeah, okay, sure, you can aggregate that as some egregore of an external force. You can externalize anything internal that you want. But if you take it inside, all right, there's an anti-you that's trying to keep you from stepping into your full power, all right, call that Satan, call that part of you that's in opposition to yourself, just like it was actually originally written, the opponent. All right, you versus anti-you. And that's a book that I hope, I intend to write at some point is you versus anti-you. Because, that is the opponent. And there's a sacred purpose to that because it's through this opposition that we actually refine our evolution. It's a catalyst for transformation, the anti-you of those things that are coming against you, they actually forge our character in a way. So there's a greater gratitude for the opponent, again. And that's bringing a little bit of like the vision, a higher vision to, okay, I understand, Satan the opponent. And then there's Lucifer, which oftentimes gets conflated. But it makes more sense to me to disambiguate, and say, alright, so what's Lucifer? Well, the light bringer. The Rosicrucians have their own model of what that means. But to me, the light bringer is somebody who's bringing you light, as if you needed light, as if you weren't the light. So, they're bringing a false light, they're bringing a light that says, here, let me give you some light, being without light. And so, it's this seductive trap that's trying to give us something that we already have. So it's all of the shiny allurements that we think make us better than somebody else, give us some moral high ground to make us better than another person, that dehumanize somebody, or stimulates our lower nature in some way, and fills us with this false light. What Marc Gafni would call pseudo Eros, which is like the thing that drives addiction. It's the hungry ghost. It's like, I'm trying to get this feeling every time I take this opiate, or every time I take this, I get a little bit of this. It's the Luciferian kind of allurement of reaching for light, which is ignoring and saying, the light is not within my control. I need someone to bring me the light. I need the light bringer to come because I am this dissolute person. And again, that's part of the teaching, like we're sinful. The original sin. We're not light beings. So we need somebody else to bring us the light. And that's like the Luciferian principle. So you have that setup. So that's inside of us, that desire. And also externalized, where people are always trying to give us light, in this condescending way, like in a confusing tricking way. Like, you child, that don't have any light, let me bring you some. And then there's the Christ's, which recognizes the true light that's within all of our hearts, and the possibility that we all have. And so, putting that in my own cosmological structure has been really helpful for me, and it's super fresh. This is like within the last week that I've come up with it.
DEL: Cool, yeah.
AUBREY: It's cool, though, right? When you hear it, you're like, yeah, that makes some sense. I can kind of get behind that. And of course, that's blasphemous what I'm trying to share, but fuck it. This is what feels true, again, anthro-ontologically. This is what feels true to me to actually use these concepts and understand them deeper, and see, how does this help me navigate through my life? Let's just get pragmatic here. This model helps me navigate through my life, like, oh, this is Luciferian. Somebody's trying to give me light in a way that is denying my own light. Okay, this is my inner opponent, this is the opponent that's actually trying to prevent me from stepping forward in the best way that I can. And then this is the Christ consciousness that is aware of all of these other forces, has love for all of these other forces. But it's finding something within myself, and it's available to everybody. It's democratized. And that's another element of Christ consciousness that I think is super important. It's Luciferian the moment that you say that I have the Christ consciousness and you don't, or I'm special and you're not. That's bullshit. We all have all of these forces within us and also externally.
DEL: Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you said. I mean, I was raised with this idea that you could really just interchange Satan with ego in the Bible, that is the same thing. That's what it's talking about. It's that self-interested divider that may prove its right and tries to serve itself all the time. But it's what makes you all alone. I had, sort of, to speak to when "Vaxxed" first came out. And it's where I really came directly in contact with this. "Vaxxed" had come out, we were kicked out of Tribeca Film Festival, New York Times, all these newspapers, every news agency basically calling me a baby killer. This film is going to get children killed, this is the worst thing ever. It was really outrageous. And I had expected that. I knew I was stepping into this space. I landed in LAX one day, right in the middle of this. I'm driving down the highway and suddenly, this cold black fluid runs from like the top of my head down to my toes, and I'm suddenly terrified. I am utterly, horrifically terrified in a way I'd never experienced before. It was so bad, I couldn't drive. I realize, oh, my God, I'm hyperventilating. Pull over to the side of the 405, and I'm sitting on the side of the highway. And I'm thinking, what is going on with you, man? I was like, okay. I didn't know why, I just said, okay, all I am is a filmmaker. All I did was put people in front of a camera. I put scientists and doctors and parents with injured children in front of the camera. I edited that together and put out this idea that a lot of people aren't looking at. That's all I did. The rest of this is God. The rest of this is bigger than me, it's not me. This is what's happening around me. I'm just a simple person that carried out a simple task, and I suddenly found I feel better, I'm breathing better, got back on the road. About a month later, the same thing happened. Cold black fluid, top of my head down to my feet. Talked myself out naturally the same way. But then I'm like, okay, something is planting a seed that's doing this to me somewhere. Where is this starting? This is not happening just as I'm driving down the road. I am doing something that is creating a fear of not paying attention to, and then it's blindsiding me. And I happen to, I don't read the Bible all the time. I don't want to come across as some guy that's really that deeply involved. But I did happen to be in a hotel looking through a Bible, and I happened on the story of Jesus, 40 days in the desert. And there, Satan meets him and says, look, you're starving, you can turn that. So if you're the Son of God, you can turn that stone into bread, you can make water, you can bring down your angels to save you. Show me how great you are. It's an interesting passage. And I'm thinking, ego, well, that's his ego saying that, because that's what I was thinking. And then shortly after that, there was a day where I had a very busy day, I was flying around. And I didn't actually make the call to this Senator that I meant to call because I thought I could shift his thinking on a policy I was about to bring. I'm beating myself, I should have made that call, I have totally dropped the ball. And if I don't do it, nobody else is going to do it. How am I going to save the world? I mean, all these things. And then it hit me, oh, my God, this is where it's getting me. This is where I am falling prey. It's coming from a good place. I am thinking that I am changing the world, and all I do is important. But I'm saying “I” all the damn time. And I have forgotten that I am only just a vessel in all this, and it's going to take everybody, and all of us, if there's actually going to be change. And from that moment on, and you ask how do you, that is when I was afraid. And I don't get afraid anymore, because as soon as I start seeing myself say “I” too much, I go, "You're doing it, you're doing it, you are taking responsibility when this is bigger than you. God is great. God is everything." And it's that humility, and it's what you said, you can't say I am being Christ-like. You're making an effort to be a better person, making an effort to stand in there. You cannot let your ego, which I think is sort of what you're saying, is that thing that is trying to make me singularly alone, and that's what it was. I realized I said “I” enough that what's making me terrified is I'm suddenly all alone. It's so lonely. So incredibly lonely. And that's where I would say if I was to pass on an idea, it's faith. There is no courage, you can't have courage without faith. We are not big enough or strong enough or smart enough to actually deal with all the problems in the world that we see. And it's why so many of us are depressed. We don't have that power. But if you actually realize that all I am is a very important cog in a wheel, and we're all in this, our brothers and sisters, we're all working towards the greater good if we come together, then that divine intelligence that actually guides us, that's what's in charge.
AUBREY: And the divine intelligence is what the algorithms are not calculating.
DEL: Correct, it cannot beat it.
AUBREY: And that's the thing, that's where my faith resides. And every time there's an unbelievable coincidence, a serendipity that comes, where all you can do is just smile and say, wow, God, universe, source, mystery, Wakan Tanka, whatever you want to say, you did it again. You fucking did it again. Unbelievable. And then those moments where you say, all right, yeah, all the algorithms point to Armageddon. All of them are pointing that way. But none of them are calculating the power of a force greater than we are, that's an intelligence of the cosmos itself. Like you could define it locally as the earth, and how we're bound to it. Whatever you want to use as this higher power. But there's something that's driving through us, that's making these coincidences happen, which are really miracles. A miracle is that thing which cannot be explained by reductionist materialism and all of these other ideas. And that's where I think all the algorithms are going to come up short. We're actually going to make it because there is, there is a force and there's freewill. And so, it's not a guarantee. We can't just sit back and say, Oh, God--
DEL: No, you have to do your part. You have to step up–
AUBREY: Sing your own unique song. And that's where I think ego gets included and transcended is, yeah, we do have a unique self, we do have a unique voice, we do have a unique perspective, and a unique set of skills, a unique as Gafni would say, configuration of allurements, and a uniqueness to who we are, our sacred name story. And we play that part in this symphony of the cosmos. But there is a whole symphony, and there's a conductor, and it's not a conductor that demands that you play, but inspires you to play. Raise his wand, and then you are inspired to play your instrument a little louder, a little clearer, a little purer, a little more. But you're also listening to the harmony of the rest of the symphony. And that's what we're not accounting for in all these algorithms, and all of these kind of doomsday prophecies is that we got help. We got way more help than we think we do.
DEL: Yeah, I mean, there's a million ways that that's true. Vaxxed got kicked out of Tribeca Film Festival. It gave me billions of dollars of free advertising. The whole world got curious, what is this story about? We just watched, we were just talking about, I know these podcasts are going to be back, but to mark the moment, what was it? Two days? Robert Kennedy reaches out to Joe Rogan, these two guys connect, they do their part, they do a podcast together, they get into all the details of the conversation. But what you can't account for is Dr. Peter Hotez attacking Rogen and Kennedy on what just took place. Then Elon Musk jumps in to say, Why are you attacking them? Why don't you debate them? Rogan's saying, I'll give you $100,000 to your favorite nonprofit, come in here and have a conversation with Robert Kennedy Jr. and now within a day, I think it's up around $2.5 million. People are saying I'll throw in 100, I'll throw in half a million. I mean, you can't manufacture that to happen. Everyone does their part. But then something outrageous happens that sparks and now tens of millions of people around the world are watching this strange little skirmish on Twitter, and starting to say, wait a minute, why would a leading doctor that's done nothing but make vaccines be afraid to talk to Robert Kennedy Jr. ? I mean, as you said, as we sat down, do you have aces or not?
AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They called in that bluff.
DEL: Right, are you folding aces right now, and expecting we're just going to hand the pot over to you? You know what I mean? That doesn't work that way.
AUBREY: If he was really sitting on a hand, and everybody's pushing all in, you go--
DEL: Let's do this.
AUBREY: Full house, bitches. Here we go, I got the nuts. And this bluff, and we'll see where this ultimately ends up. But what it really feels like is, they called the bluff, and they found people that had the courage to do that. And also, side note, be mindful who you're fucking with. There's an old wisdom, let sleeping dragons lie. And I think there's this overconfidence that's coming in about attacking Robert, attacking Joe Rogan, attacking Elon. These are dragons, these are dragons, lions, whatever metaphor you want to use. And that effort will only actually, you're going to call forth. And what I mean, it's not the viciousness of the dragon. It's not the savagery, it's just the full power. To me, a dragon means someone who's willing to step into the fullness of their own personal power that's connected. Of course, you don't have personal power if it's not connected to the field of power itself. God is omnipotent, all powerful. It's the source of all power. And so, when you go attack, not the false power, not the false power that you've generated from the separate self, but the power of the field itself, you're going to get a response. And I think that's collectively and individually in certain cases, what's happening, is they're waking up the sleeping dragons. That's what all of these attacks collectively and individually is happening. You're waking up the sleeping dragons, and you're creating "The Fellowship of The Ring". You're creating all of these people who may not normally hang out and get together and now oh, wow, the towers are rising, the orcs are coming, we've got to band together and come together. And they're forging this new fellowship for Middle Earth. And I can't help but in this mythopoetic way, think of Robert as "The Return of the King" like the true king of Gondor who's come back to claim his throne. Again, it's just a metaphor, it's just an idea, but it feels like that. It feels like we're in the Fellowship of the Ring trilogy. And we're in the part where the fellowship is being formed, and Aragorn is finding his way back to Gondor, to stand against the two towers. What are the two towers? I don't know, maybe it's the techno-feudalism that we're experiencing, maybe it's the corporatocracy, maybe it's the idea that there's an intelligence greater than the highest intelligence that needs to control everything, because people are stupid, and we're smart. And so, we're the World Economic Forum, and we're going to decide everything for everybody to do. Or we're China, and we're going to decide everything that everybody could do, because we're smarter than people themselves. This is the legendary epic times that we're in. And maybe, you're not Aragorn, and maybe you're not Legolas, and maybe you're not Gandalf. But we're all a part of this. There were so many heroes that didn't have names that stood in that mythopoetic story. So yeah, fine, maybe we're a foot soldiers, doesn't matter. We're all part of this cause, no matter what. And that's, I think, also, a part of what this message is. I'm thinking back to the second part of this movie, "The Two Towers" and I remember Aragorn i, and they're about to get overrun in Helm's Deep. And all of the people of the village are having to grab swords, and there's a young boy who's like 14. He's so scared, so scared about what's coming. But what does the king do? And again, he's not "king" yet. He's still got to claim that but the kingship lives within him. Just because he hasn't been coronated officially, he is the king. He's been a king the whole time.
DEL: You don't act like one, you are one. You just rise to your divinity in your moment.
AUBREY: And so, he looks at that boy, and he knows how scared he is. And he's scared too, but he looks at him and he grabs his sword, and it's just an ordinary common sword. He looks at that boy, and he says, he swings the sword around a little bit. He says, “this is a good sword”. This is a good sword. And you see, a little bit of courage from that kid, and we don't see, he doesn't follow him in the battle. We don't know if he made it or not. But in that moment, he was like, I know that this is, you're being called to a service that's greater than you. But this is a good sword. This is a good sword. And this is a beautiful thing that you're doing, and that's the kind of call. So, it's an invitation for everybody to realize, don't be lost in what Charles Eisenstein would call the myth of scale, and think that you don't matter because you fucking do. And when you carry this truth as your sword, it's a good sword. It's a good sword. And it's a good purpose. And it's a good life. And so, fucking go for it. Fucking go for it.
DEL: I mean, all that you're talking about, I think about reading Joseph Campbell and "The Power of Myth", we're in a mythic story right now. It's just so brilliant. And I sit here pinching myself that you and I really only met recently, and part of this incredible story is how we're all being drawn to each other. And it's happening all across the country, everywhere I go. These things, these oppressions that were against us, if you want to focus on negative, fine. But how many of us really found out who our friends actually are? Found new groups through this oppression of this COVID pandemic, and realized there's something dynamic people I now know that rose up and met me where I was at, which was I am not buying into this. I am not going to be held a victim of a government I'm supposed to be in control of. And we realized how many had the courage to stand up. And we stood up. When I think about, people will say, well, how do you have faith, Del? You can look at the horrors of COVID, I say, well, 30% of the United States of America didn't get that damn vaccine when they needed 90% of us to get it. They failed. And they failed with $10 billion dedicated to the greatest propaganda machine the world had ever seen. Every news channel, every sitcom was talking about masking, and taking vaccines and rolling with this. And with no money, with people like you, and Bobby and me just speaking our truth, you know what? Truth just sounds better. It's that heart. God wants your heart. It comes from the heart. It's what you said. No algorithm. They had all the best ad writers in the world, and they're dancing around on Saturday Night Live and at the Academy Awards or whatever with needles on their heads, and they could not bring home victory, because it was a lie. And now the whole world realizes it's a lie. Now the whole world knows that vaccines could never even stop transmission, which is by definition, the only reason there should be a vaccine if there ever was one, you know what I mean?
AUBREY: Right, especially a vaccine mandate.
DEL: Correct, especially if it's mandated upon you. And we think, and all of the guilting and the only way you protect your neighbor, you can't be selfish. They weaponized our compassion, they weaponized empathy against us, and made us hate those that weren't doing their part. And now they all have to atone with that. I feel bad for all of my friends and family members and people that bought into that. The reckoning they're going through right now, it is a gnashing of teeth, it's an Armageddon, it's horrific. Everything they believed in. And I don't blame them. Who ever thought you couldn't trust Tony Fauci, the head of the NIH? Whoever thought your CDC would be lying to you that something does something that it does not? Who would ever think your president would take away your job if you don't inject yourself with some product that now we find out never worked, and they never tried to see if it worked? I mean, this is a hard time for a lot of people, and I have compassion for that. But look at the 30% that stood up, and look at how many of that other 70% only even did that because they were under duress? I'm going to lose my job, I don't know how to take care of my family. And when we think about what it takes to make change. We all just watched the "Pandemic 3: The Great Awakening" that Mikki Willis made, and Ed Griffin has always said it's somewhere between 13 and 15% of a population of passionate, driven part of the population that makes all political change that's ever happened. We are so well beyond that now. We're past 30%. I think we're nearing 50% in America, that are really realizing, my God, this machine is lying to me. It's taking away my freedoms, my choice, my mouth, my voice, my job. Never again. Spectacular. And so, we don't know. We don't know who's the Gandalf, we don't know who's the Aragon, you don't set out. Someone said to me, who's our Rosa Parks? As though Rosa Parks got on a bus one day and said, today, I'm going to go down in every history book. She just did what her heart guided her to do. And there were probably a hundred other people that wouldn't sit in the seat either. But we didn't know they were there. We didn't know that they charged in with a sword and maybe didn't make it out the other side. But they were breathing and building into change. They were instruments of change. All any of us can do is show up. All any of us can do is pick up our cross as Jesus said, and walk, leave the dead to bury the dead, stop looking behind you, stop worrying about where you came from. Look at what's right in front of you. It's spectacular. You're needed, there's a battle going on, and victory is yours if you engage.

AUBREY: Yeah, I think one of the beautiful things that the "Star Wars", speaking of the myths that underlie this kind of culture, like a deeper wisdom and a deeper truth that goes in was in "Star Wars" for the first time, maybe three movies ago, Finn who is a stormtrooper, he takes off his helmet when he realizes what the Empire is doing is wrong. He's like, this is fucking wrong. And he has a panic attack. He takes off his helmet, and for the first time, the stormtrooper is humanized. Oh my God, these are people. They're people in these white suits, they're not just cattle to be blasted. They're not just like the orcs or whatever. But actually, there's redemption available for everyone, for all of us. And that probably would even be a better telling of the myth of "Fellowship of the Ring". I think he was probably still lost in some tribalist ideas where the only thing to do with orcs is to slay them. And the only thing back in that time period of the 80s was the only thing to do with the stormtrooper is to blast them. But actually, when you realize they're all people underneath there, and that everybody has an opportunity for redemption, again, these are Christ-like principles of everybody has a seat at the table. No matter if you were the most vigilant stormtrooper that was out shaming your neighbors, and on the front lines of this vaccine campaign, if you find and feel the truth and feel something in your heart, and you have the courage to take off your helmet, you can be a hero, just like Finn was, in supporting Rey, in supporting the mission of the resistance. And he was welcomed. It wasn't like, well, you were a stormtrooper so you're going to be forever damned. It was like, no, all right. You're welcome, you have a seat at our table, come on. And I think that conversion of the enemy into welcoming them in, and breaking down this idea of good, bad, us versus them, that's also what's necessary and what's also available for all of us. And it takes immense courage. You realize, man, I was a fucking stormtrooper for a while, but now I've taken off my helmet, and I'm wearing new clothes. Fuck yeah, beautiful. We need every single person like that. We need to welcome everybody. So I would love to see in another telling of Tolkien's story that the orcs get a chance to understand, all right, maybe we were forged of mud in the depths of the earth, but somehow the mud started speaking through us. And somehow, we found some common ground with the dwarves. And actually, we could all come together in this. And I think the new myths that are told, are starting to hint at that understanding of all right, there's redemption available for everybody. It's the first principle and first value of my cosmos, that redemption is always available.
DEL: To bring it back to sort of what brings us together, is this conversation about Bobby Kennedy. One of my favorite parts of the Rogan interview when I was listening to it was when he talked about John F. Kennedy, and the moment with Russia and Khrushchev, and you were talking about, really the last time we felt nuclear war was imminent. And he gave this famous Peace Speech, which Bobby's about to commemorate with his own statement on peace, which I think is really important. But what he said on Rogen, and I'm going to do my best to sort of paraphrase, but he's far better at dates and figures. But what he said was, what my uncle did, he gave a very strange speech in that, and maybe was the most important speech he ever gave. And what he said was to the American people that always believed that Russia is our enemy, and we're the victorious, and we're the powerful, and they're the losers, and we had this, he's like, I was even raised in it. And then I watched my uncle say, we all act like America won World War Two, and he said, No, Russia, Russia won World War Two. And we don't realize that, and they paid dearly for it. They lost, one out of every seven of their citizens died in that war. One third, like 30%, I guess of their nation was leveled to the ground. It'd be like the East Coast all the way to Chicago, or something being leveled to the ground. They were totally decimated and destroyed for the contribution they made. And we never even looked at them as having won. And now we judge them, and they are just people. They're just people that have paid a serious sacrifice. And Bobby's bringing up now, because how did Hitler come to them? Through the Ukraine, through this space, that has always been an Achilles heel for them. This is what no one wants, all the neo cause and everyone, they don't want to hear this. And even liberals now have become the same thing. You read the headlines, Bobby is signing with Russia. No, he is not. He is siding with humanity. We are the ones that have started this war. We put nuclear silos all over the borders of Russia. And if they did that in Mexico, we would be at war with Mexico tomorrow, and we would be destroying Mexico the way Russia is destroying Ukraine. And it's such an important message. And it's so dangerous for Robert Kennedy to be bringing this message to us, because we are so brainwashed in choosing sides, as though there's only evil Russians. Those are real people dying. There are real Ukrainians dying. And when you really look at what's happening here, it is clearly a proxy war between this idiot we have running our country and the one that is bullying around in Russia, and this needs to stop. We as human beings need to step up. I probably am going against what I just said by calling Biden an idiot. I'm sorry. It's not what I mean. What I mean is disillusioned people with the wrong perspective of who we are as brothers and sisters are making decisions that are getting innocent people killed, beautiful nations leveled, beautiful buildings and families being destroyed. And when you see the headlines in your newspapers attacking someone, pointing that out to us, as John F. Kennedy did, Russia is acting in their own self-interest just as we would. And if we cannot understand them, we will never be out of these forever wars. Sure, we're going to have difficulties around abortion discussions. We're going to have difficulties around discussions about vaccines. We're going to have difficulties with discussions around climate and all these other things that are triggering us. But if we cannot put ourselves in our opponent's shoes, let me at least try to understand that the dog is eating the seatbelt buckle and that's why this guy isn't wearing. Let me try to understand that I may not be seeing the whole picture. Is there some common ground we can find? Because if we can't, everything is going to fall. If we can't come together as a nation, we are no longer going to be the beacon of light and hope and liberty, and justice and the pursuit of happiness. We are just going to be a warring, sick, disgusting nation, like we see all over the place guiding nobody anywhere, angry, frustrated, furious, and wondering why every time a new president comes in, they erase everything the last guy did, or the last woman did. And they start all over. And all this ends up looking like that house that started as a shack, that added a kitchen and put a second floor. And it's a crazy town. It's a crazy town, because we're not coming together. This is such an opportunity in this nation right now to put away Democrats, Republicans, independents. These are all religions. They're not human. They're not spiritual. They're not beautiful. We are. We are. This is a nation that still has enough in its foundation to allow us to find each other again. And I'm afraid that moment, that light is dimming on this opportunity to be spectacular once again, to lead, to embrace, and show the world that we can actually come together. Yes, we have differences. But we see the beauty in this nation, we see the beauty in each other. And it doesn't matter what color we are, or what race we are. We are not an apartheid state, we are wide open. And we are powerful and more powerful because of it. It is such an opportunity right now. But man, we've got retraining to do. We've gotta get out of this rat, drug addiction we have.
AUBREY: Yeah, to go back to the model, that Luciferian false light, and go find the light that lights up all things, the light of the sun itself. It shines on all creatures and all plants evenly. I mean, that's the Christ-like love. It's like, I will warm your shores, I will warm your waters, warm your plants, warm all your creatures, all of that, find a little bit of that in ourselves. And fuck, man, this has been an inspiring conversation. And I know, we were talking, we had a beautiful dinner with Bobby over at my house. It was a stunning gathering of people. And one of the things that really does matter and does count, if you feel moved by what you heard, a donation really helps. I mean, it's fuel. It's like adding fuel to the battery that powers the whole thing. And yes, there's so much love and goodwill and volunteering, and people doing things, but still, the energy of actually the resources to move, to travel, to actually share messages, it's important. It's important to offer that as well as your voice, and as well as standing in your courage. But yeah, I mean, as Charles Eisenstein said when he was on here, make it like a sacred ritual. Let yourself be invested in this cause. And so, if you're moved for that, whatever it is $5, $10, $20, $33, $333, $3,300, which is like one of the limits for what he can actually spend for the primary, whatever it is, and there's caps on the on the maximum. But whatever it is, let this be a pledge so that when you look back at history, and you see, you're like, yeah, I stood. I went and I invested and I made a stand, and I picked up my sword, however small or however big it was. I did something. When the world needed me the most, I did something. And it's not the only thing you'll do, and it's not reduced to that. But it's a beautiful opportunity--
DEL: It doesn't define you getting involved. It's part of what we do. And let me just plug it, Kennedy24.com. Kennedy24.com. And I would say this, beyond just putting in $5 or $10, join the email list. And I want to say this about every candidate, I won't even say that you have to choose sides. But you should be connecting directly with every one of them. So, their emails are coming in. And look how they're talking to you. Do they think you're intelligent? Do they think you're a part of this system? Do they only care about money? Are they giving you information? How are they speaking to you? What are their policies? Actually do some work. These decisions right now are so important to let a $10 million commercial made by some Hollywood genius define and decide for you the choice you're going to make, versus actually going out of your way, listening to an interview or for God's sakes, go watch on his website, his speech, his announcement speech. It's two hours long. Yeah, two hours of your life. I get it, we're all busy. Do it in pieces. This is literally a decision that will affect the future of humanity. And give Biden two hours too. Give Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump and anyone you can think of that's out there. Give them the two hours, they deserve that. They're putting their asses on the line, they're working really hard. They are doing this for a reason. Try to figure out what that is, what's motivating them, what's driving them. And then ask yourself, who do I actually align with here? Who do I feel alignment with and act accordingly? Fund those people. We've got to engage. We cannot allow ourselves to be jaded now and say, the system doesn't work and blah, blah, blah. I was saying at this men's retreat I was at, and they're like, I know where there's caves. When we need to hide, I can show you where the caves are. I'm like, "Fuck the caves!" I don't want to know where the caves are. I'm not planning for it. I want to live in a world where I'm living in a damn cave, and it's fall out or whatever the hell is? That's the future for me and my kids? If that's what it is, I don't want it. I think of the Native Americans that would tie themselves, like, pound a stake in the ground, tie a rope around their ankle, and stand there ready to fight saying this is the ground I'm willing to die on. I'm not going anywhere, I'm standing up. This is that moment. Deal with the caves when it's all over. All right, maybe then you retreat, and it is what it was. But for God's sake, to be looking for your cave or looking for your way out and stocking your kitchen, your pantry with food so you can survive when the Holocaust comes upon us, really? Really? We've got no other options? Because there's no one in a history book that we have ever read that thought like that. George Washington, nobody, not Martin Luther King. Nobody said you know what, this is hopeless. I'm just going to hang it up and go find myself a cave. Every single page in the history books that we read, you will never read a story, we outnumbered them1000 to one, the battle lasted five minutes. No one writes about that. Every history page is written about dynamic individuals up against insurmountable odds, seemed like they had no chance. Out of nowhere, the Scots left the Brits and went over and joined the Irish or whatever the story is, something spectacular happened. And we're standing there to actually be able to say I was there, man. To tell our grandkids, I was there. And you're reading about it in your history books. This is what that moment is. We're getting to write those pages.
AUBREY: Hokahey, my brother. I love you, man. And thank you for coming on. It's been beautiful and inspiring. This is the feeling of hope that I think, and hope as a vision of the future. And I think it's so important to keep that vision of the future, and to not allow the vision of the future to be the cave's version of the vision of the future. Like, allow yourself to hope. Dare. Dare to hope, dare to have a vision of the future that's more beautiful. The more beautiful world our hearts know as possible. We know it's possible. It's written about in every story. We know that the kingdom is available. And despite all odds, it can triumph over the forces of Empire. We know that it's possible, so dare to hope. And I know that it's painful to hope and get disappointed. But damn, when you look back at your life at the end, or at the beyond, you'll say fucking A, man, I lived and I stood and what a beautiful life this was. This is a gem in the string of gems, the pearl necklace of every life that I ever lived. This one has a particular glint to it when I look back at it. So fucking Hokahey, let's go brother.
DEL: Amen.
AUBREY: Thank you, everybody, for tuning in. We love you. We'll see you next week.