The yearning to know God, is one of the deepest yearnings of the human heart. It is at the core of every religion, but many of those Religions are simply reiterating the transcripts of someone else’s divine experience. As grateful as we are to have those records of the masters who have come before us, what about the GOD that YOU KNOW in your HEART to be REAL?

When you make contact with the Divine, then something really magical happens. Things clarify. You start to have a greater purpose to everything in your life. You know which team you are on. And you go all in for all life. 

Shawn Chester is one of the most disciplined warriors in the medicine world I have ever known. For anyone looking to follow the initiatic path of the spiritual warrior, to heal your trauma on the way to a higher purpose, check out what he is offering at https://thenativeguides.com/.

AUBREY: All right. Just dropping into a prayer. Thanking God, Great Spirit. Thank you for establishing the communication, so that we can be servants, warriors, kings, lovers, brothers, mages, all the things that we need to be to serve life, serve the good of all, serve the kingdom in whatever way we're capable of, in our own unique expression. Thank you for choosing us as we choose you. It's an honor. It's an honor to fight for you, God. It's an honor. Amen. Shawn, my brother. Here we are. We've been through some adventures recently. We had some adventures down in Soltara where we drank some ayahuasca together. You've had your own whole series of adventures, drinking medicine, and helping facilitate the serving of medicine with your taita in Columbia. We just experienced a medicine journey, our own god bomb, signature medicine journey with myself and Vylana yesterday at the house. So, we got a lot of stories to tell, we got a lot of things to share. But first, just drop it in man. How are you feeling right now? What's alive for you right now?
SHAWN: Very good to see you again. Yes, we've been through some great adventures since I've seen you last. Life has been beautiful, and I'm in a very happy place. I've been honored to be moved forward in this particular life, this life path that I've been put on. And been learning so much, meeting the greatest people ever, and just happy to see how the rest of it plays out.
AUBREY: That's the thing, we kind of know what the next steps are. We have a feeling and then it starts, the middle part gets, we don't exactly know how it's going to work. We don't exactly know what we're going to be called to do. We don't exactly know which battlefields we'll be on, what will be required of us, but we know the next steps that we need to take. And then we also know the ultimate commitment that we have. So it's like we're anchored in two places. And I think this is important for all people listening is, find your two anchor points. And the two anchor points are, I know who I am right now. And that connects you to, I know how I serve, like what are you here to do? What is your vocation, as far as what you're going to contribute to the world? And we say things, like all in for all life, or for the good of all, this real clear or we're here to do. And when we say the word God, we talk about the God that we know, not the God that people have been talking about. So, just permission for everybody to loosen the language association around the word God, because we may use that word a lot. But don't think that we're using the word in the same way that you're using the word. It's our personal aperture on the great mystery of the Divine. But we may use that word God. But we're here. And we're feeling listening, learning, understanding how we can serve God and ourselves included in that and serve all life. And then we know who we are, we've cleaned out most of the internal stuff that we need to clean out, and the personal side of it. And it's like, alright, what is the next mission? And then we just have little clues about well, I don't know exactly what the next mission is. But here's a couple steps that we're going to take.
SHAWN: Yeah, I can say, on my journey, and my journey with God and in medicine, there's no separation of the way that I am in ceremony and the way that I am in life. I've had to learn to take the feelings that I gather, and the knowledge I gather, and make sure that I'm incorporating that in my human life as well. Because that's what the teachings are for. They're not for me to just experience system ceremony. They're for me to experience this, and develop a higher learning and a higher knowledge so that I can walk in a way that is appropriate to serve others to do the same thing.
AUBREY: That's something that we arrived at yesterday was just that kind of, that felt recognition of all right, here we are, here's what we're doing to train, to get stronger, to get ourselves fit to actually serve in a bigger way. There's almost like a training component. And I think this is one of the moves that I don't think a lot of people talk about in psychedelic medicine, and vision in these journeys is, everything is so focused on like healing the personal trauma, dealing with your, and you have to do that, you have to go inside and heal the personal trauma. But then there's a place that transcends that, includes and transcends that. You have to do that. Of course, you've got to deal with all your stuff. You clean, you clean, limpia, limpia. You clean out yourself, so that you can really show up to be in service of a bigger game. And that's the move that I think people aren't really talking about. They're not really talking about these ceremonies and these medicines used. Oh, what are you doing? Are you rehashing stuff with your dad? No, I'm not. Fucking beautiful, all of the things that I've experienced there. I feel in such right alignment with that. What am I doing? No, I'm listening. I'm using the medicine as a bridge to listen to the divine. I'm using the medicine as a way to strengthen my own being in a way that I can actually serve the world in the best way possible.
SHAWN: Our direction, and my philosophy in the medicine is to do exactly what you said. We have to uncover whatever is inside, whatever we have stored, whatever we've been through, whatever has been passed down to us. It's important to clean and to always clean. But at the same time, it's important to not think that what happened to us makes us now. Because when we think that we carry that trauma, as in, it's our identity, and it's not, and it's important to take the medicine serious enough to be brave enough to go in, face this, and put it behind us where it's no longer part of us. And then we start finding out who we truly are. Once we realize how to be present, and that there is no past, I believe is when we start getting the knowledge and how to move forward of service to ourselves, to our loved ones, and to everyone around us.
AUBREY: You say there is no past. So that reminds me of Carlos Castaneda quote. I can only paraphrase, but it's basically, at a certain point, the warrior realizes he doesn't need to carry around the baggage of his past. So, he lets it go so that he can be free. And it was something akin to that. Is that kind of what you're referring to, is basically saying, yeah, blessings to my past? I'm not trying to exile any part of me, or not to say that that wasn't me. Of course, it's me, I'm going to include it all. But also, let it go.
SHAWN: In the letting go, there has to be full acceptance of all of it. So, it is facing it, understanding it very maturely, and looking at it without emotion, looking at it with understanding. But whatever it is, was, and what got us from there to here isn't what gets us from here to there. And I think it's important to find a way to clean yourself. I think in many of the psychedelics, it allows people to see things and to face things. But I don't know how it allows them to move past it. And I think the importance is, being with the right intention and in the right place to where they understand that a true cleaning is by saying, be gone to all of this. And anything that weighed you down, anything that was heavy, dark or bad, is no longer anything that you keep, and you only take the good with you moving forward. And that's what you start powering up. And I think that's what gives you strength is when you start harboring the good instead of forming armor that keeps the bad on the inside. Some people do that. They keep that trauma of their life, because that's how they describe. And sometimes we use it as excuses of why we are the way we are because this happened to us, but there are no more excuses. And then mature reality, we're responsible for the way that we feel, we're responsible for our actions, we're responsible for our thoughts. Therefore, it's important to clean this and keep our thoughts clean, keep our actions good, and move forward in a good way.
AUBREY: Yeah, the idea of the ability for us to choose, the maturity of consciousness is actually the reification, the making real of our ability to choose. And then we'll also talk about where actually the choice becomes a choice's choice, right? So, we learn that we can choose, we can choose to actually move beyond. And this is not bypassing. This is, you've seen it, you've stared it in the eye, you've cried the tears, you've purged the purges, you've done the things, you've sent the letters, you've got to do the stuff that you've got to do. But you finish all of that, you wrap that all up, and then only on the other side of that, then something else starts to really emerge. And then, from that point, choose. Alright, these are my choices, these are my intentions, these are my choices. And you can get very, very kind of precise with what you want to bring into your life, and what you want to create with your life.
SHAWN: Precise. That's a key word for me. Precision is important. In the original, in the beginning cleaning process, it's like we're shotgun blasting all these things that we think, all our past. And as we start moving through and cleaning this out, it's important to get precise like an arrow, and start really directing, okay, what are these key things that are holding me back? Is it my emotions? Is it my anger? Is it my sadness? Is it my depression? Whatever these things are, why, and what's causing it, and--
AUBREY: Trace it to the root.
SHAWN: Trace it to the root, find it because it's there. And it's small, and it's tiny, and it's hidden. I believe negative energy is there to confuse you, and it's there to distort you.
AUBREY: Yes it is.
SHAWN: So it's hard to get to the precise point because it will always steer you around. And that's why I think it's important to have the courage to continue, and know that when you find that you're on a path of doing good, don't stop. Because those bad things will clear out. And then you'll start to understand really what it is, those key things that hold you, those key things that keep you from sleeping at night or speaking well, or doing well. And then when you focus on that, you kill it, and it dies. It's no more, it can no longer harm you or anyone else. But you have to want to go in and kill it.
AUBREY: Yeah. So, you get this level of kind of self-awareness where you trace all of these things to, any expression that you're having in your life, whatever you're feeling, whatever you're going through, there's a root, and there's a root that comes in. And sometimes you can spend so long talking about the root. But the most important thing is you identify the root, and then the alchemy comes when you say, thank you. And whatever way that is, like, yeah, thank you for being a fucked up parent, or thank you for this fucking challenging thing that I went through. Thank you for this, I got in a car accident, like thankful for this car accident. That was a reminder that I needed. The moment that you can say thank you, you get this alchemy, and you just say bless that path, because it got me to where I am now. And where I am now is exactly where I wanted to be. As Hafiz, the poet said, God circled this place on a map for me, and here I am right fucking now. And so, blessings for the past. But let's move with Tilos, with direction, towards a future that we want. And I think there's a lot of energy that just tries to, it's almost circular in nature, where everybody's just kind of circular masturbatorily working their trauma and stuff. And that's fine, we all have that, we have to clean it. But remember, there's a purpose. And the purpose is, find the alchemy, get to the place where you can say thank you for everything that's come before. It's made me who I am today. And now here, what's our greater mission? We have to be drawn forward by a greater mission. And I think that's a key component that I think a lot of people are missing when they're talking about the psychedelic medicine conversation, because it's all about the trauma, the trauma, the trauma. Yes, yes, yes. It's super important. And there's a greater mission that we're all being called to. And that's the reason why you should just work your trauma. If not, why not just take some painkillers and drink some booze and numb it out? Why not just get by?
SHAWN: If you're going to keep it, you're going to keep recycling it. Yeah, you're right, why not? But I think when you make the decision that you don't want to keep it, then you no longer speak of it. You face it very clearly, very maturely, you think it. But you look at it as a training course. Every obstacle was good. Everything that was bad was good. It strengthens you. It prepares you to do better as you move forward. If people like us didn't have difficult traumas, and we didn't have difficult things to make it through, we would be too soft to take on the challenges that are to come as you do move forward. And as you do it, it only gets harder. And therefore you start greeting the difficulties with a little excitement, because you know that nothing comes to you that you can't take. Nothing is going to happen, that you're not strong enough to move through. So you accept that. And when it gets really tough, you know it, you accept it, you find the grit, and you move through it. And then that's gone. I'm a believer in making the ceiling your floor, and continuing, leveling up. And every time you're able to move to a new level, all of that is gone. It's time to focus now, and navigate the level that you're in, until you can move up from that.
AUBREY: Yeah, and I really appreciate the loving, feminine energy that's like, I love you, sweetie, just as you are, everything's good. It's an important voice. But there's also the voice of the Father, and please remove all religious associations with that. But like the father, it's like, you got this, you got this, son, come on, get up, dust yourself off. Let's go. There's an important balance of both that I think, both of us, one of the reasons why we have such an affinity and why we're brothers is because we both get that. We both get the necessity, and the importance of the softness of that feminine of like, we got you right where you are, shitting and puking crying, in the middle of it, don't worry, we'll hold you, we got you there. Which is in a way, an aspect of the divine masculine to do that. But there's also the appreciation for the feminine to come in there. And we also have the, alright, now dust yourself off. The world is under duress. There are forces that are trying to turn truth upside down, love upside down. There are forces out there, however you want to call them, this no fucking conspiracy, this is just a fact of the cosmos. There is resistance in the polarity. There are those forces that are pushing for life. And then there's the Thanatos, there's the death impulse, there's the inversion impulse, there's the trickster that tries to turn every love, every loving moment into a mockery, and every truth into a falsity, and every heroic act into a false flag of some sort. So, there's all of these forces at play. And to really, now, more than ever, just be able to cut through and see through all the bullshit.
SHAWN: I think we all develop our own roles. And just as you speak of love and the softness and feminine side, thank God that we have that, or nothing would be worth fighting for. However, to offer such free love, it isn't reality. And in reality and the medicine and healing others and healing ourselves, there's something people don't talk about is discipline. I never truly found love until I found discipline. Discipline to clean myself, discipline to love my wife the way that she deserves, the discipline to love my friends in an honorable way. And I think that it requires for some of us to create that strength so that others feel the comfort to give the love. But discipline is important in us to provide a true loving space where someone feels very comfortable and they feel safe. And so for me, I look at everything through the medicine because that's my life. My love to another is by being there, strong enough and secure enough where they know that they can surrender and they can allow whatever comes up to come up. And it's very necessary, whether it be a young woman, old woman, man, doesn't matter. There's times in this cleaning and in this process that we're going along in our life to better ourselves, that we're going to have breaking moments, and those are important to half, those are our purging. Whether it's to vomit, whether it's to cry, whether it's a scream, whatever it takes. But that's how we rid ourselves of this negative energy. These forces that you speak of are very real. And however anyone wants to put that, you know once you try moving forward on that path, there's always something trying to pull you away.
AUBREY: Yeah, Steven Pressfield calls it resistance. I've named it the anti-me, the anti-you. It's you versus anti-you. There's names like Ahriman, there's lots of different names. But fundamentally, there's a force trying to fuck you up. And mad blessings to that force, because that's your opponent. That's the Larry Bird to your magic. And like, keep fucking stroking homie, because I'm going to get a little bit better. I'm going to be a little bit better the next time. So blessings, and I'm going to go kick your ass. And that was fundamentally one of the themes that came through in the journey we experienced yesterday. Which was, we drop into the ketamine cannabis ceremony together, me, you and Vylana. And the energy was just thick. It was just thick. And you say words like, dense and then people think, is it dark? No, no, no, it was just thick, it was robust. It was full, full of all that. And in that, you've had a lot of experience. So I'm going to switch it over to you, because you've had a lot of experience. I mean, how many times have you drunk ayahuasca now? Hundreds and hundreds.
SHAWN: Several hundred, I'm sure.
AUBREY: Yeah. So this was your first time with this particular medicine combination that Vylana and I, is kind of like our home journey. What was the experience for you, as you were going through that?
SHAWN: I was a little nervous at first only because I have a very deep commitment to my study and the medicine in the ayahuasca and the medicines that we use, and that I study with. I'm not a person that is here to experiment. I'm very confident with my direction and with my learning. But I do believe there are many medicines that can assist us on the journey. And I was very open to experiencing your medicine. The way I overcame my nerves was simply knowing that I know what I know. I'm very concrete in who I am. Therefore, I believe that no matter what my situation, I can have the discipline to allow myself to open up, and to accept. And I also feel very comfortable that I know how to accept what is good. And if something, the tiniest thing feels off to me, I have little tools that I use internally how to always protect myself, and to navigate through these things. So, I was very excited, actually to test my own abilities with your medicine, and it was beautiful. Wow. Wow, it was good.
AUBREY: I like when it doesn't underwhelm. I like the fact that when we go for it and we do one of these things, it's not like, "Oh, yeah, that was cool." It was like, "No, some shit happened here."
SHAWN: You and I are pretty good at going in. If we go in, we're going all the way. And we did. I felt the power of it. I mean, details, little details. I can tell you that I felt everything that I know, every bit of confidence that I have. And no ego, zero ego. Just very secure, and allowing myself to grow in this. And as it came into me, and I felt it good, I went into it. So I started combining with the medicine, and I felt myself growing as a mountain. Just moving up, like lava flow coming up from the ground. I could feel myself and I could feel my internal strength, my power. I could feel my connection to spirit that was allowing me to move through this. I knew that I was connected to the God that I know. And the God that I know was with me, and showing me even more what I need to see. And, giving me what I need to continue this path. I think it only gave me more confidence to continue moving in my path. Like you said earlier, there's going to be a lot of stuff in the middle. We don't know what comes every day. But I know the more that I think clear, the more that I keep personal discipline, the lighter I allow myself to be around others, that the lessons and the directions come. And I'm just going to keep following that path. Because it's done well so far.
AUBREY: Yeah. Indeed. I mean, on the last podcast, we told the whole story of where you've come from to where you are. This is picking up from that conversation, so I encourage anybody who hasn't listened to the story, Shawn's story arc is magnificent. From the deepest, darkest covens, and bowels and caves of Las Vegas to the shiniest palaces and brightest lights of that shiny room in hell kind of syndrome, that can be there. And also the beauty. There's beauty there, too. There's corruption, wherever there's the divine, and then there's the divine, wherever there's corruption. You can actually find something beautiful in everything, and you can find something corrupt in everything beautiful, and that's just the way it is. It's cool to track your story through that, but now we're here now.
SHAWN: Yeah, anything sacred is surrounded by corruption. And it doesn't matter where you are, what you're doing. Same in the medicine, same in the jungle, same in the churches, same in life. But I think when you are precise in trying to go for what's sacred, you start developing the tools to move through the darkness.
AUBREY: So, let's talk about this darkness and this corruption, and let's talk about the divine. I mean, this is really from a meta perspective, what the theme of what our experiences have been. It's basically like we're training to be in service to life. It's funny, because there's certain people; Dave Asprey got on a podcast and he was like, "Oh, poor Aubrey. He's doing all this ayahuasca and he's not doing it right, because he obviously has to keep doing it. Because he's..." I'm like, what are you talking about, bro? I'm focused on a much bigger game. I'm focused on God's game. I'm focused on making that connection, cleaning my body, getting myself to be the most effective, powerful vehicle, to be able to serve all in for all life, to the best way that I can. And there's a fucking real, there's a real opponent out there. The opponent is real.
SHAWN: And it doesn't stop. The second you stop, you're done.
AUBREY: It doesn't stop. And if you look around the world, there's a lot of beautiful things and a lot of places where life, God, Spirit is winning. But there's a long history of the opponent being Empire. Empire being the favorite. They've been bullying us for a while and yeah, now, we just got more of our allies who just showed up, and it's perfect timing. So, we were just talking about this force, the force that the team that we’re on. I mean, it's team God, it's team all in for all life and it's all our allies. It's all life. It's all the good, the true, the beautiful, as it really is. And post modernity has tried to corrupt that and say there is no such thing as good, true and beautiful. Bullshit, there is. You can feel it in your body. You know that it's there, it's real. You know it. And this is the God we know, this is not stories we've been told, this is not ideas, this is what we feel. And then of course, our brothers just came in, interrupted the podcast which intentionally I told them to interrupt the podcast. Our brothers, Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Alexander, they came in to just say hi on their way to the airport. And it's awesome, because we feel like not only are we connected to all of the Earth, we're connected to God, we're connected to these forces. But we also have people who are also in the same mission. My teacher, Rabbi Marc Gafni who would say, we're whole mates, in that we're facing a shared horizon. And that we're a squad, and the squad is forming. And everybody has their radical, unique role, and their unique song to sing, and their unique way to play, and their unique thing to do. But it feels like the Fellowship of the Ring kind of time. This is the time where really we're aligning with where we stand. It's not the small games, the political games, the red-blue games. It's the big game, it's Empire versus the kingdom. It's life versus anti-life. It's you versus anti you. It's the upside down, Sitra Achra world, versus a world of truth, and clarity and beauty.
SHAWN: I feel like we're building an army.
AUBREY: Yeah.
SHAWN: I love when we speak of Team God, because I certainly feel as I'm activated. This is a mission, and to be with you and my brother, Aaron, just like all the men that we were together with in Costa Rica, I see it and I feel it. It gives me more strength. It's like we're all supposed to learn what we're supposed to learn. We go off on our training alone, we do whatever we have to do. But I think coming together the way that we are starting to come together and sharing this with others, and I think it's spreading. I think it's obvious that it's spreading, the work that you've done to get the word out. And honestly, you're living it, you're not talk. I know you and I've watched you and you have shown me. And to be with other brothers that are living the walk and putting in the time and the effort and the struggle and the pain and it's hard. It is hard. It's the hardest thing ever in my life is now. But I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life, and it's the most beautiful thing, and it's the most rewarding. And it gives you power every morning to get up out of bed and charge.
AUBREY: One of the old Hebrew Scriptures says, one of the first things expressed is, it is not good to be levad, it's not good to be alone. This was a kind of a download that made its way into the Old Testament, it's not good to be levad, alone. And that really means we're meant to have our community, our brothers and sisters with us. And that it's a big deal. And also, it means connection to spirit because you're never alone when you're with spirit. I can be on Bear Mountain in Sedona all by myself, you can be down in your Mountain in Colombia. When you're with spirit, you know you're not alone. And it's nice to have people, like physical people you can talk to. And we have the allies in the unseen worlds that are there for us and can be with us. So, it's this feeling of never being alone. But then you start to think about the people who are really suffering and it's the sense of loneliness, it's the sense of being locked in an inner world that nobody can see into, that nobody can access, nobody can understand. And that inner world of pain and the confusion of the stories, it's what allows that force that tries to turn everything upside down and confused and degrade and kind of undermine our own divinity. It creeps in through the window sills of a lonely room.
SHAWN: Yeah, I have felt the aloneness at times. But like you said, I think when you really search for your connection to spirit, you find that you're not alone. And there's no way I could have done the journey that I've been on by myself. I wouldn't be capable of it. I've had help. And when I thought I couldn't go any further, I asked for help. And I got help. I think that's a message for everyone that feels alone, they're not. That's part of the great deception, that's the dark force, making people feel alone, alone in their thoughts. Everything's repeated. Most of us don't have original ideas. Most of us aren't having one of a kind paint, it's happened before, and it's happening to others. So, it's important for people to know that they can move through it. They have to know that they can move through it.
AUBREY: Yeah. So, it's reaching people, like everybody's at a different stage of their process. And there's no hierarchy of, well, it's better if you're this way, or this way, or this way. Be at the stage you're at. Blessings to you whatever stage you're at. And maybe it is just making that first move to get out of that cold, lonely room, and find human connection and start to open your, wherever you are. Maybe there's traumas to work through. But then maybe you're ready actually, you've done the cleaning, you've done the work, and you're ready to say, alright, let me lift my head up and let's talk about playing a bigger game. Let's talk about looking at these forces from the most zoomed out perspective, the most macro, without trying to get lost in the wormholes of this fucking secret society here and these puppets over here, and people like, don't worry about that. Just leave them as extra dimensional forces that are absolutely real.
And yes, they manifest in the physical in a variety of ways. But nobody knows exactly how that works. There are a lot of theories. Some of them are probably true. Some of them are probably not. But however, stepping into that big game and to feel that we're gathering a group of people together, who are down to play the big game. It doesn't mean that we know exactly what moves there are to make. But it's the commitment again to that, we understand the playing field. And that's what came through in the journey that we had yesterday. It was like, here we are, and these dark forces, we see you, we acknowledge you, we thank you for being there as opposition, as the grindstone to sharpen the sword of our spirit, and the sword of our discipline and sword of our will. Thank you for that. However, if you're going to fuck with the earth and her people and everything else, come at us first. Let us put on the double plumed helmet of Alexander the Great, who rode Bucephalus and let everybody know, all arrows should be aimed at me first. That's the kind of idea, it's like, this is not, again, we're talking to extra dimensional forces. We're saying, we're working this out in the largest macro, and we'll make decisions in the micro. What does that mean? Maybe it means for me, it means lending an immense amount of support to Bobby Kennedy's presidential run because I believe he's on that same team. So, there'll be little missions that involve 3D actions that we take, but it's the deeper commitment that I think is the most exciting for me, and makes me feel so at home. And so, like I have my tribe and my people. There's a group that's with me. In our Fit For Service community so many people are with us there, and so many people just listening are probably feeling that. Like, "Yeah, I'm fucking with you, man."
SHAWN: Yeah, I guess I gathered mine by really paying good attention to the guests that I have. That's my world, right? I live in the medicine world of ayahuasca. But there's many ways to connect to spirit. There's many ways to clean yourself and heal yourself. This is my way. And I take the time to make sure I'm doing it the right way and learning it. So, my focus on each one of my guests is to truly understand who they are, where they came from, what's inside. So then we can assist them on their journey and cleaning them out and assist them. It's like I feel I'm in the middle of a handoff. Like they do the work, they come to me, I have to do what I do right and do the best I can with each one individually, so that then I may hand them off so they can continue on their path. I think all of us are in the middle of a handoff. We have to learn our role in our ceremony of life and do that role right. When we do that, I think again, I see it, this is spreading. I hear it from many people.
AUBREY: Yeah. Well, what I want to talk to you specifically about is, and I think we've canvassed again, and I've said it so many times, but wherever you are in the journey, it's beautiful, blessed, et cetera. But there's certain types of people that are ready to step up into their warrior archetype, and to come push towards the front lines, put on their own double plumed helmet, and lock arms in the Phalanx, on the front lines for God, for the real God that we know. Not a god that we have to tell stories to each other about. Like me and you don't tell stories to each other about God. We feel God and we know we feel the same God. Yeah, maybe we can extrapolate some ideas of it. It's the felt sense of that. And so we know what team we're on, we know we're there. And then there's certain people who are called to step forward and really play a significant role. It's part of their character. It's part of who they are. And I think one of your specialties is finding those people, and I think this is even unlocking more and more now is drawing those people to you. And going through that type of warrior training, to say, all right, you ready to show up on the Special Forces front lines operator for Team God, which requires, we're not handing out missions and assignments, you've got to figure that out for yourself. You've got to listen to God, you have to have a clear channel. And yes, there may be collective missions that we all agree on. It's not like that. It's not like a normal military, where somebody in a fucking suit makes a decision and then you go kill a bunch of people. And you're like, "Why are we killing..." No, not that. You're called to be an operator of that capacity, that capability, a Tim Kennedy type of motherfucker. A type of motherfucker like, look at the darkness and look at the evil and look at that and say, fuck you, not today. You do not take our children, you do not take our weak, you do not prey upon those who cannot protect themselves. We step forward and we stand. It's a masculine expression, but it can be carried by women or men. But it's typically that masculine element of, we're here to protect, and we're here to guide us forward on a path in your future. And it feels like you are particularly, one of those people who's like a steward to bring those warriors through into their fullness.
SHAWN: I've been very lucky to have the most wonderful people that come as guests, they stay with me in my home. And it's been, from house moms to Indian Sikh healers, to strong men, to professional men, just of all kinds. But when people come to me, I ask them, and I talk to them very clearly before they come and ask them if they're ready to do the work, because it is hard work. I guess my concentration is to get them through the hard work and get them to a new level, and to truly make their ceiling the new floor. And I think it strengthens every individual when they face a challenge and they overcome it. In the medicine work, it can be the hardest challenge of your life. But you will overcome it. And I've had the greatest people that come and overcome it. It only supercharges me because I see them. I mean, we cry, we scream, we laugh, we vomit, we poop. There's a lot of stuff going on sometimes and it can get pretty hard. We can see things of our lives that we don't like and it can be very difficult. But when we have others there to give us a little motivation, to get past it which I try to offer to my guests and that's my form of love in that you will overcome this, and stand with them, and they do overcome it. I'm very blessed to know that I have about 65 new friends that are stronger than they were before I met them.
AUBREY: Your story itself is proof of concept of somebody who was, I mean, you had a real demon in you, bro, back in the day. And, a real beauty to you too. But there the beauty and the demon were entangled. And I'm not talking about the beast. The beast is always there and the beast is divine. And there's a cool story from the ceremony that we might tell about the beast, but I'm not talking about the beast. I'm talking about the demon. The demon is not pointed at the right direction. It's turned its face from God. That's Sitra Achra, the turning of the face. It's turning its face from God. And that's where in the darkness of that shadow that's cast when you turn your face from God, that's where the demons live. And you had demons in you, bro. You went through the deepest cleaning to come out. And, through that process, the strengthening and the tempering of who you are has been enormous. So it's just kind of a case model. It's like a case study for anybody. Regardless of the demons you have inside you, there's a path where you can clean those demons out and actually become really a new human.
SHAWN: Yeah, it's been an interesting journey. Even though it seems always uphill, you can feel, when you really search for truth, God's truth, you search for who you are, there's juice inside you that can get you through this. For me, I just started feeling that juice. And I was like, if I had to claw my way through it, I crawl through it. And many times like anybody else, I'd want to pull the cord and just call it quits. It would be much easier just to feel like live a peaceful life, but I don't feel like it would have been peaceful. And yeah, so I'm no different from anyone else. It can be done. We're all case studies, anyone that is advancing their life to try to do better and to assist others. It's a role for everyone, just, who wants the job? Because it's there.
AUBREY: One of the things is, is that it's not, once you clear your own personal demons, great. Important first step. However, there's lots more.
SHAWN: It's just the beginning.
AUBREY: It's the beginning. And both of us have experienced, coming out of our own personal demons and experiencing the darkness externally, and you've had some really visceral experiences. I've talked about different Brujeria, different bad dark medicine that's been utilized, which is an aspect, which is basically just creating conduits for that energy that exists in the cosmos to actually be targeted and directed towards an individual. And you've had some experiences not only, personally, but also with some of your guests and clients of really dealing with these sometimes internal energies and sometimes external energies, and the line between those is often blurred. There's usually a resonance that needs to be there. But I remember, so the first story I want to go to is, there was a story, you were being the darkness that that dark energy had attacked you. And that dark energy, you can tell the story of, and it's a story of a bird with razor wings. Tell the story of the way that this dark energy attacked you.
SHAWN: Well, I first started experiencing, once I felt cleaned myself to a level of truly feeling clean, and then going deeper into the study of this medicine, you realize that just as strong as this good power is, there is another power that's also practiced. And it goes back to the beginning of time as well. I had to overcome myself getting attacked by a dark magic that people were putting on me. When I was first in the jungle, and started becoming close to the grandfather, there were people that didn't want me so close, like I was interrupting something. And I did have a very difficult time the first time I experienced getting black magic put on me. And it was separating myself, my team. It was very confusing. It was very scary actually.
AUBREY: So, one of the signatures of this energy that we're talking about, call it Ate, call it Sitra Achra, it works through confusion. It also finds the wounds. So, if you don't trust, if one of your wounds is you've been betrayed, trust will be one of the wounds that will enter. It's always confusing you and it'll trick you into thinking and make secret packs and double cross them.
SHAWN: I got so confused. I thought my own team was attacking me. There's times, I think my own Taita is attacking me. It was very difficult to go through, it lasted about four months. It was very hard. I can't sleep at night, I lost 20 pounds, it was affecting me physically, emotionally, spiritually. I felt like there was a cloud or a dark piece of metal over my head. And I couldn't pierce through. I felt I had no connection. And I had a friend kind of talk to me and explain things to me. I had to come into full acceptance. Okay, this is now, I guess, for my training, this is very important for me to be going through. And I made it through that. I learned how to get really strong in my prayer, get really strong in my intention. And then to keep going. The secret is to not stop. You have to keep going in and you keep facing it until I was able to clear it and overcome. But I did have a battle that I would call, it's a pretty strong battle. Once in the medicine I had walked out of the maloca and I went to vomit. The vomit felt very different. It felt very electrically charged. Like I knew something different was happening. I had enough experience in the medicine to where I know when things are different. That's what the practice is, to always recognize when anything changes. You can sense any energy changes. And that's your job in the study of the medicine to understand, what is this? Where's it coming from? Is this mine? No. When you realize it's not yours, is it just in the air? Is it just coming out of someone? Or is it direct? And so you know when things change. And so, it happened to be in the second cup, a very, very large second cup where I finished the bottom of our glass of medicine. When it hit me in the vomit and I felt the electricity, I knew something was different. It didn't scare me. I just knew I had to pay attention now, something's happening. And I was by myself, walked out in the jungle. I was up against a tree. I had my hand against the tree and I could see things coming out of the ground at me, stuff coming in the side at me, just felt very, I was in a full, felt like a battle. And then in my third vomit, this electric vomit, something popped and it kind of exploded out of me. And when it exploded out of me I felt a moment of freedom, just very clear. I didn't know what was going on. I could feel electricity in the air. I couldn't touch my beard, my beard felt electric. And I glanced over and I looked on top of the maloca, I looked to the side and on top of the roof, I saw, looked like a black looking bird. Had like knives as wings, looked very wicked. I remember just looking and I stared at that bird and as soon as I stared at it, it shot like an arrow back into me, and hit me.
AUBREY: Like an arrow feather, right?
SHAWN: Yeah, like an arrow. It just turned into a dart, shot like a dart and it--
AUBREY: I imagine it like the pointy parts of its wing, just shot out–
SHAWN: I know what the darts look like. As fast as it was, I could see and I could feel it. When it went in, it had barbs on it. And it went into me and into my nasal cavity. And I could feel the barbs set. I immediately went to try to vomit. Because I knew, oh no, whatever this is, it's back in me. And I told you, I was very concentrated. I knew something was happening, I had to focus. So, I went to try to make myself vomit, and I couldn't put my finger in my mouth. It felt like my finger turned into a knife, and I couldn't get into my throat to make myself vomit. I could feel the metal on my teeth and the electricity. It was very intense. So I stayed there a moment trying to get to it. And I realized I wasn't going to be able to. So I had to make it back inside. I made it back inside, and I sat in my hammock and I started really connecting and I connected to spirit. And the spirit started teaching me about it and kind of teaching me how to be very focused and direct on this. And my direction was teaching me how to clean it out, and gave me specific directions on how to clean myself and how to focus. And so I've been working on that for a while.
AUBREY: When we were in Soltara with all the brothers, you shared that. That you were still working on clearing and cleaning the barb that had been lodged in you from that Brujeria, from that dark magic. I remember one of the ceremonies in particular, it was a strong one. We had mats next to each other. And I could feel you working it, and you're like hacking and snorting, and spitting and getting into it. And I was deep in the medicine, like fucking deep in the medicine, and I was just sitting there like, "Yeah, fuck that bird. Fuck that bird." Like make fucking chicken wings out of you, bitch. Fuck that bird. And that was that energy that I was pushing it, like, we got you here, man.
SHAWN: Yeah, I felt it.
AUBREY: You're not alone in that. And it was hilarious because then we get back out to the star deck and we're telling the stories, and we happen to have some world class football quarterbacks with us like Aaron Rodgers. The funniest part was that, so in ayahuasca, pork is like the worst thing you can do for a diet, right? And footballs are made of pig skin back in the original day. So he's had this huge laugh that we had the most equipped people to just start throwing footballs and pigskin at all of the witches and warlocks that were out there. There was footballs of diet-breaking pigskin out there. But that's the kind of stuff that we need. Yeah, we're going to get attacked, sometimes we're going to get fucked up, sometimes someone's going to land a shot, and it's going to land.
SHAWN: As I was able to learn more about it and work through it, it became a great blessing, because to work through it, and to clean it out, I had to go a little stronger into the medicine. And so, in the study of the medicine, different from when I'm with guests, I have to push myself a lot harder than I do normally. And that's part of my training is to push myself harder. Therefore, when I'm with others, I'm able to be very aware and very focused. And what this did, this infection, what it did was it made me push myself further and I found is I could push myself further into medicine, then I would bypass it. And I started truly connecting in a way that was giving me some very powerful knowledge, and some great knowledge. And I learned more from battling this thing than at any point. And I've coughed several pieces up at different times. And--
AUBREY: That's very interesting because you've had a physical representation of this barb. So the barb hit you from the astral plane, but it had a physical manifestation in your body. And this is where people listening are like, what is fucking going on? But this is where the understanding of reality as we know it. Once you step deep into the medicine space, you start to realize that these are general guidelines that can be bent. And bent by the magical reality.
SHAWN: Anyone hearing this can certainly form any opinion. It can be in your mind or whatever. You're drinking too much medicine, however that works. It's okay. I don't expect anyone to understand it. It's something that I'm living. And I do live this, and it is a very powerful understanding of inner worlds, outer worlds. And I don't claim to understand that. I don't think anybody truly understands it completely.
AUBREY: It's called the mystery for a reason.
SHAWN: It's got a lot of opinions, I don't deal with opinions. But what I do know is, it was a gift to me, because it taught me so much. It taught me how to secure myself, it taught me how to protect myself, strengthen myself. It also brought me down to a level to make me understand others so much more, because it got me very soft for a moment. And I needed that. And so, it helps me to understand others even on their first drink, their first process, that first time. Everything is very challenging to you at whatever level you're at. So for me to get challenged on that kind of level, I wear it as a badge of honor, and I accept it. Because that's for my training. So, I don't want to call in bad things, but bring it, if it comes. And I'm going to learn how to deal with this and face it. I don't say that in any type of ego way. Because it's not that, but a lot goes into this job. And this is one that I just learned is potentially--
AUBREY: Yeah, and that's the important thing. It's not like we're trying to pick a fight. We're not trying to pick a fight.
SHAWN: The opposite. We're trying to do good.
AUBREY: No, we're trying to push forward with the most maximum goodness and love that we can. And where we see that the tables are upside down, let's turn them right side up. Let's turn the upside down world right side up. Let's turn this deadness, numbness, confusion, lostness, loneliness, into something that's connected, loving, full of life, full of Eros, full of connection to spirit. That's what we're doing. And there's obstacles in the way. And if you're in the way, well, you're in the way, and we're going to have to deal with you. And if you don't like what we're doing, because you're feeding off of the energy of having someone in a degraded psychic condition, if you're feeding off that energy, well, sorry, sorry. We're going to fix this. So, you either step out of the fucking way, or it's going to be a fight, but we're not trying to fight you. We're just trying to do what we need to do for the world. And there will be certain entities that find themselves on the other side. And if you're on the other side, we're going to fuck you up. That's our commitment, we're going to do everything we can. And respect, you're strong. You may get us sometimes, but together, we're here and we're going to give it everything we got. And maybe we go out on our shields. Maybe ultimately, it's like, damn, the fucking darkness, it was too strong. But I just don't believe that's true. Because I feel the allies and support that we have. Because it's not individually of course. The darkness can pick us off like a sniper. Easy. But together when connected to the field, connected to everybody, it's like, alright, we're coming. We're coming. And we're moving forward. And so, it is truly not picking a fight. It's just setting things from the upside down to the right side up. And in the natural process, there's going to be opponents. Just the nature of it.
SHAWN: Everyone has their own battle. Like I said, I'm able to see such beautiful people and what I experienced is my experience. And I watch others come in from the beginning and their experience is just as hard, and I watch them do the same thing. Focus, put in the work, put in the will, and I see them overcoming their obstacles. If we can all overcome one at a time, just take the one in front of you, do your best, I think it's the same message for all of us.
AUBREY: And there's no hierarchy of importance, of value, right? If your personal battle has cosmic significance, like you overcoming that thing that's inside you, that's limiting you from your personal power, your victory over that has cosmic significance. That is a victory against that energy in its entirety. The best place to access the energy if you really want to be a warrior on the path, the best place to access the energy is first within yourself. Fight those battles. And those battles will continue to come. It's not that the opponent is ever completely absent from us. Of course, it's always testing us. The anti-you is always challenging, manipulating, deceiving, prodding, creating story frames of illusion. Yeah, right. But fight that there. And it's a claim of, no, everywhere we see it, inside and outside, we stand and we know what we stand for. I think that's what people really want. It's why when you go to a football game, and you want to root for your fucking team, like you want to know you have a team, and you want to know you have a goal. And I think this logos, this purpose, right? Logotherapy became a huge thing after Viktor Frankl, which is the idea of purpose as a medicinal property for mental health, having purpose. It's so important. Because if you don't have a purpose, what are you doing? We're lost. But when you can have at least this like global purpose, which says every battle, like I understand the field, I understand which side I'm on, and I'm in the game, and every battle has cosmic significance, that's fucking cool. And that alone is so healing and enlivening to your life. That's the shit. I want to talk more about, so discipline. Discipline is one of the things that I think people are ugh, discipline.
SHAWN: It's a hard one.
AUBREY: And you said something earlier, you said, the discipline to love. And I think that's a beautiful thing to remind ourselves is that there's a discipline, an awareness to step into your loving self. I have a necklace with all of my closest friends that are represented by beads, and you're going to be on that necklace here, soon as we get you a bead. It's a necklace of beads. And, in the journey yesterday, I stopped on one particular bead, one of my sisters and I just stopped on it. And I was like, "Man, I gotta reach out to her." Because we usually hang out in groups a lot all the time. She's one of Vy's best friends. It's my sister, Surya. So I was like, Surya, man, I gotta fucking reach out and just be there for her personally. Not just because like we're all there but I gotta... And I just had that reminder to just be there, be there for her personally. That technology of the focus to just pay attention to... Because, of course, I love Surya, and I love her, but it was in its passive state. But the discipline was actually going through the beads on my necklace, and finding where, ah, here's one where I need the discipline to first of all, go through this process, check in, see. And then take the time to send that message, and I sent her a big message. And it turned out she was going through something that was challenging with her father. And so, I was like, yes, exactly. Thank you. Thank you, the system, universe, Spirit, God. Thank you for this message. But that's love and it's also the discipline to pay attention, to make sure that you're continuing to love who you need to love.
SHAWN: Discipline allowed me to find my heart. Because when you're clouded and you're confused, or when you're not thinking with clarity, you say things very easily or do things very easily. And I just think that, in my experience, keeping in the mind the steps what to do, like if you get a message in a ceremony, call your mom, reach out to your friend, you have to do these things. It's very necessary. That's the guides helping you move forward in what you're trying to accomplish. There are steps to this process. And when we say we're not on our own, we're not. And there's steps to these processes of cleaning and moving forward. And we receive these things, these little notes that will come to us in ceremony or in life. You don't have to be in a ceremony, it may just come to you while you're sitting at your table in the morning. But you have to create that checklist of things and do those things. It's very important. You have to have the discipline to move forward in the right way. You have to have the discipline to find your weaknesses and work on those. We're all human, so we may do the same dumb things over and over--
AUBREY: Those patterns of our familiar selves run deep.
SHAWN: I do that all the time, but then catch it. Catch it. I catch it and look at it, say, okay, this, I'm not going to do again. Throw it away and it's gone. But discipline helps move us forward. And for me, it has helped me to push myself in a way so that I can provide a safe container to truly show love to others. Because it's coming from my deepest, strongest place.
AUBREY: I think the reason why people have an allergy to discipline is because their why isn't strong enough. Like if someone has a fight coming up, most people are really disciplined. Like an MMA fighter or a boxer. They go into camp, it's very rare, even for amateurs, that they lose their discipline. Sometimes they do, of course, but they get beat. Because you know that there's some reason why you have to train this hard, you have to eat this well, you have to keep yourself in top condition because there's a fight. Or, sometimes people will create, I know I have a lot of friends and former friends who would like they would get into some kind of like fitness. What is that? Like bodybuilding competition, but like a fitness competition thing where you like, and it was like, ah, well, this will give me the discipline. And it does kind of because you're going to be on stage, but it's just a small game. It's a small game that you're playing. But even in the small game, you have a reason why, so you're able to do more. So they created a game, so that they could be more disciplined, so that they could look good on stage or whatever. But it doesn't fucking matter, ultimately. But they wanted the discipline, but they needed something to get them there. But the invitation is like, alright, play the bigger game, and understand that God, life, spirit needs all of us--
SHAWN: Big game.

AUBREY: At our very fucking best. It is a fight, and it's a dance, it's both at the same time. And that then inspires the discipline necessary. When you really have that, it's like you're in fight camp. All right, now we're staying focused.
SHAWN: When I speak with my guests before they come, I do several video calls, and I like looking at people when I speak to them. I tell them that prepare like you have a game coming up. Adjust your diet, adjust your mental, take some time to meditate, exercise. You have a match coming, you're going to be matched, and you're going up against yourself and you're going to reach a very difficult moment. Prepare for that moment. And they usually do and I have them come in prepared. Okay, my diet's on, I'm meditating every day. My focus is in, I'm ready. And I see such a difference when people come with that intention, when they do the discipline, the hard work before they come. The more work you do before you go to ceremony, the more work that will get done in the ceremony. So you're not playing catch up, cleaning the body, cleaning, cleaning. So yeah, I push. Let's have some discipline in this. Let's take it very serious.
AUBREY: And I think one of the other aspects of the discipline is, in the mind, if you know that you haven't been disciplined, like if you go into a fight and you know you haven't worked that hard, and you get dragged into deep waters--
SHAWN: You're going to quit a little easier.
AUBREY: Yeah, you're going to be like, "I didn't train. I'll train harder next time. I'll just quit this time." But if you know, I fucking put in everything I could, I trained. I say this about Conor McGregor. I think when Conor McGregor was on his rise, all he would say was hard work, hard work, put in that hard work. And I think he really did then at that point, and I think he still works hard, I'm sure. I don't know Conor. So I don't want to project my imagination upon his life. But I imagine that there was a certain point where he reached a certain level of fame and success, where he didn't quite work as hard. So he didn't quite believe himself in quite the same way. Same with Tyson, there was a certain point where he didn't quite believe himself as the one who was working as hard as he needed to work to be the baddest motherfucker that they could. And as soon as you don't believe that you've put in the work and you haven't put in the discipline, you're very vulnerable, when the pressure comes. So, discipline is, it's such an important aspect to life that I think we need to understand it. And I think parents try to instill discipline in their kids, but they don't really give the kids enough of a why. Why am I going to bed early? Why am I doing these chores? Why? And I think that's something that I think can be ingrained in patterns early, like this is why, One, for the sake of practicing discipline, because this will be important. So there's that. But to understand that you're practicing, practice makes the master. Practicing discipline, practicing discipline, practicing. That helps, because when you need to be disciplined for a specific task, you'll be able to do it, but also what is the greater purpose for the family? What is the greater purpose for your life? What is the real reason why? Discipline for no reason is like, we're all like, why are we doing this? This doesn't make sense. But when it makes sense, there's an ecstasy to the discipline.
SHAWN: It's the importance of finding your purpose. Find a purpose. What are you working for if you're home and miserable? That's one. Not to be, right? Find a way to give you something, that drive, we should all have it. It's hard to find. Some people are very lost. I've been one of them. Have the discipline to search.
AUBREY: Yeah, it seems like it's difficult to play this bigger game unless you know God, in a way. Unless you know the God that is real. And, again, as my teacher, Gafni says, the God you don't believe in doesn't exist. That one that you're like, "Oh, that God's not real." Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's the one that you know. And then when you know that, it's funny, because I've known God for a long time, but my relationship is getting, but I would forget, and the voices in my head and the confusion would encourage me to forget. Because of course, the upside down wants you to forget that God is real. Wants you to claim like Nietzsche did in the postmodernity movement, that God, value, Eros, ethics, it's all a contrivance. Wants you to believe that so you stop playing. It wants you to not care about the election, because it's all rigged. It wants you to just be in a state of apathy and emptiness. It wants to trick you into that mind state. But when you feel that there's something real, you go into the deepest parts of yourself, and you find the divine that lives and dwells within you, your own Atman, then
SHAWN: Everything changes.
AUBREY: Everything changes. That's the key point. And I think, some people have that innately. But the medicines are such a powerful bridge to give you the felt gnosis of that divine. And I think that's one of the biggest gifts of it, because once you make that connection, then you've got that lodestar, you've got that point, the lighthouse
SHAWN: Your compass.
AUBREY: Yes, your compass. And part of the thing, as you said, corruption swarms the sacred. So, the religions have been swarmed by corruption.
SHAWN: So have the medicines.
AUBREY: So have the medicines. And so, there's a lot of, almost allergic reactions even to the word God, an allergic reaction. And there's all kinds of different things that happen. And then there's also issues with fundamentalism, which can occur in both medicine tradition, and in traditional religion. Like this fundamentalist, like the rules are everlasting and unchanging . But that's denying the reality that we're in a constant evolving communication with spirit, and spirit is making new fresh demands based upon a new field of play as it's evolving.
SHAWN: I found once I established my true relationship that I felt with God, with spirit, it didn't matter what anyone else thinks. And I also lost many opinions, because you can study so many things, none of us can know everything. And it's getting out of your head, God's not in the head, right? And it's getting out of what you think it is, and connecting to what you know it is, and what you feel it. It's almost like it's no more faith, faith is important and beautiful, but it's a step above that. It's knowing sometimes. And it's assurity. There's no confusion whatsoever. And thank God that I have been able to connect in that way, because it's certainly changed everything in my life.
AUBREY: It's so funny how, when I was younger, I was exposed to organized religion. So, we grew up in a family that wasn't atheist by any stretch, but was very deeply agnostic. But my father had some psychedelic medicine experience. And on my mother's side, there was a kind of First Nations animistic sense of spirit that lives in the animals, in the trees. So there was some basis for something. So it wasn't nothing. It wasn't just pure, materialist, reductionist, that's the only thing there is. But there wasn't anything that was really built there. And then I was exposed to organized religion, and I was like, "This is bullshit, doesn't make any sense." So, I was like, I am going to spend my time proving that this God isn't real. And that was like a mission. Christopher Hitchens and Bertrand Russell, and it was Bishop Spong, and it was all of these different things that were trying to explain why this wasn't real. But, the irony is now we're in this podcast, and I'm saying, the most important thing is that you know God. And when I think of myself, yeah, like my highest calling, as I shared is be a dragon of God, be in the fullness, dragon means the fullness of your power. That's what in my kind of archetypal world, a dragon means the fullness of your power. So be in the fullness of your power of God, the fullness of your power of your divinity. Be a dragon of God, be a dragon of God. And so, a man of God of course, but even transcending, including and transcending my madness, into the fullness of my complexity of my being of God. And just as you see, the arc of that journey of I'm going to take God down, I wasn't entirely wrong, because that God was a misinterpretation.
SHAWN: But it's a loss of energy and it's an attack.
AUBREY: Exactly.
SHAWN: I believe we have to always ask ourselves, are we helping or harming? And sometimes it's maybe better just to connect ourselves and live it ourselves and share it in this beautiful way. Then knock it down from, why knock others? Some people are stuck to beliefs and whatever that is. And I just think that the better representation that we can be of it, and our connection to it speaks louder than anything we can ever tell them.
AUBREY: Right. Yeah, so for somebody who's listening, because I don't want to say the only way is through the plant medicines, it's the way that we found it. And also breathwork has really helped, and also our time in nature. There's so many other ways that--
SHAWN: Prayer, intention.
AUBREY: All of these things are there, but it's becoming more and more apparent to me that living, evolving connection to spirit is kind of the foundation of my being. And it guides every action, and every decision that I make, right? And you're the same way. I think that's one of the reasons why we like to enjoy every moment that we get to hang out is precious, and also the visions that we have for what we want to build together. It's because we get it. We've been through it, and we found it for ourselves. It's not anybody, we don't have some guru telling us what to do. No, it's the whole system that we feel. And we have our own limitations and our own blind spots, and our own things that we can't see in ourselves and outward. Of course, of course, we're still human too. But we're just fucking listening and driving forward in that. And that's something that people just aren't, in my opinion, talking about in the self-help world, in the human potential world. In all of these worlds, everybody's trying to optimize and trying to, alright, maximize your time and optimize this, and all that's important and good. But fucking find that big piece. And then everything's going to be so much clearer when you can find that big piece. However you do it, whether it's the Vipassana and you're in a silent meditation, or whether you're going to a darkness retreat, or whether you do decide to go down the medicine path, however it is. I really think it's important for people to have that, to feel that, to feel that God is real.
SHAWN: Yeah, it's everything.
AUBREY: To know it in your bones. In what you offer down in Colombia, one of the kinds of things that you've learned is, if you really want to go and play this bigger game, sometimes you have to push a little bit. You can't push in. And we had kind of a funny conversation about, in certain ceremonies, the kind of the way of it is if someone falls asleep while they fell asleep and they just needed the rest, and maybe that's true. Maybe that's true. Or maybe they need someone to gently nudge them and say, hey, take a three point shot and wake the fuck up, and clean yourself, do the work, stay focused. Don't get lost in the phantasmagoria of the opening chrysanthemum of fucking light and drift off. It's fine, it's fine. All good, all good. But stay with it, focus. That's something that's unique that's really coming from your, this really kind of sacred masculine energy is like, yeah, yeah, take your time. And maybe you do genuinely need to rest. I remember, on the fourth, I had a night of series of four ayahuasca sits. And the fourth night, I was just so fucking exhausted that I did actually just blank out.
SHAWN: That's a different scenario. Sometimes you need the rest, but it's also my job to really pay attention, and allow the rest when it needs to be, or maybe sometimes give a little nudge when you need a little more pushing. I don't offer ayahuasca tourism, and I say that very clearly. You come work with me because we're going to work, and that's how I was taught. And that's how I'm taught in the jungle. And that's how I'm taught with the grandfather I'm with, focus is very important. Understanding, getting precise is very important. And if you're going to go this far out of your uncomfortable self, go into the jungle, and do all of these things, then bring your A game, and bring the no-quit attitude. And it doesn't matter again, male, female, age, doesn't matter. But you bring the wheel to charge forward, and you're going to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. You can certainly drink ayahuasca 50 times and recycle and the same thing. You can lay in a hammock and drink a cup and do the same thing. I believe in advancing and actually putting together the intention of what you're trying to accomplish. And if you're really trying to do that, it's going to require a lot of effort. And that's where the discipline and the focus comes in. Like I said, we're going to have some hard times, that's beautiful. But when it's over, we party, we play music, we're happy, we dance by the fire, whatever it takes to relax. We spent time in the river the next day and we talked a lot. We share the Mambe and tobaccos and allow ourselves a break. We form a strategy then to go into the next night. What did we accomplish in the first night? What do we need to get to in the second night? Let's focus on that. We have a mission. And then we go into the second night, same program. Clean, clean, work it out. Develop the same thing for the third night, new strategy. Okay, by the end, they're already pumping. They're like, alright, they're ready for that third night. So I like to charge the medicine, I believe in giving it all respect and sharing love with all of us. We are all full of love, my team, my Taita. There is nothing but love in our hearts. But we got that way because it requires work and we put in the work.
AUBREY: It seems as if this attitude of intention is something that's applicable to the ceremony of your life entirely. Even if you're just going into a party, go in with an intention. I've been doing this for a long time. Fuck, back when I was like 28, I said party with your third eye open. Party with an intention of why are you doing this, where are you going? What is the point of this? And oftentimes it's to maximize the ecstasis of the moment, and understand where you're getting actually drawn into something that's closing you off and leaving you vulnerable to the darker impulses and energies, and allowing your own inner demons to actually have free rein to control your starship. You've got to steer away from those types of situations. But still, go into any of these situations being like, all right, I'm going into love and dance and to really experience what's possible. We have a festival coming up called Arkadia in November. And that's the attitude that we're trying to bring. It's a festival, it's a party, but it's a ceremony. It's like, how can we anchor what it feels like to celebrate being alive with our brothers and sisters together? And like just saying here we are, we are here on planet Earth, humans, and we're alive. And we feel spirit moving in us, as us, and through us. And we're alive. You go in with that intention, and it just opens it up so much more. It's so much more fun. It just the whole thing just kind of unlocks. And you get even deeper, more refined levels of pleasure and play when you actually apply intention and purpose to even the moments where just the goal is to just celebrate life. Because this is a pleasure playground that we're in, and it's a battleground. It's both. But to just get in there with the full intention.
SHAWN: I think that's good in every situation. Even when you go to sit and have dinner with someone, have an intention for that dinner. And I think it sets your vibration, sets you at a comfortable frequency to share with the other person, and have the intention to truly share. For me, I try to do intention in everything that I do. That's been my greatest lesson is whatever it is, have a clear intention for it. How to go into it.
AUBREY: Yeah. I want to share one other aspect of this. And it's been something that's been alive in me, and it's connecting to the beast that we have inside. S, in the journey we had yesterday, I said, I got the guidance, and I was smoking a cigar and I said, "Shawn, there's a beast out there. There's a beast out there, that's your ally. And it may want to fight you, but it may want to become you. But there's a beast out there. Go find that beast." And I could feel you find the beast.
SHAWN: I was searching. I could hear you saying it. I was in such a deep moment. I was going right with you. I found it.
AUBREY: You found it. And then I felt you find it, and then once it set in, I was like, "Shawn, tell me about your beast."
SHAWN: Every beast. I found every beast.
AUBREY: Yes. And the funny part about that which is, again, the divine synchronicity of all of that, is every beast is this kind of concept, this brand, it's in the birth process. It's going to stand for a variety of different products, whiskey, tobaccos, toothpicks, whatever the fuck it is. But every beast is a celebration of that there's a beast that we have. And it's like what Jordan Peterson says, know that you're a monster. And he's talking about the beast. Know that and know that you're the master of that, and the beast is here to protect. It's like a super well trained guard dog. It's still a beast, but it knows it has purpose. It knows, but it's wild. It's still wild and it will unleash its beastliness, whenever is necessary, but only when necessary. It's not the juvenile beast that can't be controlled, the dangerous beast. It's perfectly safe, but perfectly, absolutely dangerous.
SHAWN: I couldn't believe when you showed me the logo. It said every beast. That's great, that's good. Of course it is.
AUBREY: I had an experience and a journey with Vylana recently, where that energy came through me in just a strong way. And it was beautiful to see how she responded to me, in the fullness of my masculine beast. And she was just enraptured by the beast, she loved it, she craved it. At a certain point, she said to the beast, "I'm sorry I've missed you. I'm sorry, I forgot. I forgot how much I loved you." Like the deepest, the deepest, savage, primal, carnal, sexual, but also all of the loving, protective, all of that wrapped in. She recognized, like fuck, like that thing, it's all connected. Like in the Hebrew tradition, it's one of the lions of fire.
SHAWN: The beast is necessary.
AUBREY: The beast is necessary.
SHAWN: It's necessary to find it, train it, become it. But the beast is a protector.
AUBREY: Yeah. And it's not just men who have the beast. The beast is in all of us in different ways.
SHAWN: The strongest ceremonies I've ever had, with the ladies, man, I get some strong women. I mean, in all sizes and shapes, and the beast is there in all of us. I've seen it. I had a group of ladies, all ladies, five of them. Wow. I mean, one of the strongest ceremonies I've ever sat in. Just strong, strong women. Once they cleaned out, let it out, you could feel the energy in each hammock. Yeah, women are strong.
AUBREY: Yeah, it's a universality. So I guess, in summation, if we were going to summarize the two things that are tenets of our beliefs, it's get in touch with your inner beast, which is the full expression of your animality, with the full ability to be the beast Master. You're the master of the beast, you've trained the beast, you understand how to direct it in the ways that are in service for the good of all. Because we see the shadow beast come out in all kinds of different ways when it's not acknowledged, and it's left in a cage. People are turning a blind eye and they're not the beast master because they're not owning the beast, they haven't integrated it. So it's like find the beast, integrate the beast, become the beast, master of yourself.
SHAWN: The importance of our discipline.
AUBREY: Exactly, exactly. And then find the connection to spirit. So find the beast, and find the connection to spirit. And then you are fucking, you're an activated, powerful, lethal motherfucker.
SHAWN: Activated for sure.
AUBREY: Yeah. And that's the invitation for anybody who feels called, and it doesn't mean you have to do anything with me and Shawn. This is just guidance with like, this is what we've found on our path. And if you think otherwise, beautiful, all good, but we found that, I think both of us, that these elements are necessary for ourselves. And it's also a great joy. And it's also what I think we both believe the world needs. The world needs the beast that's connected to spirit to come stand up and to snarl at all the darkness that's coming in and say, "No, you can't take our weak, you can't take our poor, you can't take those that are vulnerable. We're here to protect."
SHAWN: I offer to anyone, if there's anyone that hears this, and it resonates, come join us. We're the native guides. That name is real. We are your guides and we will take you through the medicine and move you through this experience. There's many places to go. But if you come see us, I give you this full commitment.
AUBREY: And I've seen it, I saw my brother Andre, came down and sat with you. And just hearing his stories. He's in touch--
SHAWN: Oh, Andre is great. Absolutely.
AUBREY: His energy is just so fucking full of life and light and love and support. Andre is one of our Fit For Service brothers. When he's in there, when he's in that container, he's just a pillar of all the goodness. He's got you.
SHAWN: Yeah, he brings good stuff.
AUBREY: He brings that good energy. And it was the right calling for him to come down and sit with you. So, there's, I'm sure, many more people who are listening. And I also think too that there's so much trauma that's happened to our warriors, our soldiers, who've gone to war and they know discipline. They know how to deal with the unimaginable, and they've been through very difficult things. And it seems that them making the switch as they move out of service into this greater purpose, all of those skills that they've had, could easily be applied to this. And they could become incredibly powerful forces.
SHAWN: I've had some really great veterans come. And I like it, because they are disciplined. They do have discipline. You give them direction, they do these things. And a lot of the veterans have a loss of identity from that world coming into their civilian life. And I think that's hard work that needs to be done within. I definitely offer my services to these men and women that have a lot to peel off. I've got them, I want them to know that I train for them. So I hope they'll come join also.
AUBREY: Yeah, absolutely. Well, my brother, it's a pleasure to hang with you as always.
SHAWN: I would like to say one thing where I just came back from
AUBREY: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SHAWN: So, I've been on a two -month break for June and July for the rainy season. And I came out of an ayahuasca ceremony doing five ceremonies, and I went to get a stem cell treatment. So, I went to Auragens Stem Cell Treatment Center. My friend, Tony Paoli, one of the owners, and Dan Briggs, if you're listening, thank you guys. They invited me to come. And, man, it was incredible. I did a full week treatment. It was in Panama City, did a week treatment of the stem cell through the IV. And I did spot injections, I had torn shoulders, both of my shoulders. And it took me about three or four weeks, there was kind of a little awkwardness for me. And I think because of all the work I've done with the medicine, anything in my body is a little off. But I'm on my fifth week now, and it feels I can feel my fibers, my muscles, like healing, my energy feels great. Everything about it was really amazing. So I just want to thank Auragens and their team. They were so wonderful. Those guys were great, they treated me wonderfully. And they also extended an invitation to you if that's something you want to do.
AUBREY: Yeah, beautiful. Definitely.
SHAWN: Maybe we'll take a trip together. Go spend a week there.
AUBREY: And I think it's just a good reminder of the importance that you can't have a split between your body, your physical body and your spiritual body.
SHAWN: What I liked about it, too, is it kind of, for me, the feeling of this 1000-year-old ancient tradition and cleaning my body out, and then going into something that is the newest, most upgraded technology but it's not pharma. There's no chemicals. It's purely biological. And they have scientists there, Dr. Utley, who's absolutely amazing, has devoted his life. And Dr. Utley's philosophy in Stem Cell is very similar to our philosophy in the medicine. He plays music for the cells, he knows how to treat the cells. So it's just an amazing combination for me, because just like you said, you can't truly live with clarity if you're lacking somewhere. Body, mind, spirit, all of them have to be worked on with discipline. The body, you've got to clean the body, you have to do some exercise, you have to take in good food. Not just taking good food just because of the medicine. You do it because your body needs it. Your mind needs it. And to connect to spirit, you need a clean vessel and a healthy vessel. So yeah, we live by that.
AUBREY: Yeah, the thing I like about the stem cells as well is that in the modern medical world, we're so myopic. We're just targeting one specific thing so specifically, at the detriment to a thousand other things. I mean, all of pharmaceutical medicine is so specific, and you can just look at the list of side effects of everything that... "Alright, well, it'll help you with this one thing."
SHAWN: Then you've got to take medicine to clean your kidneys and--
AUBREY: Exactly, your liver, your kidneys are like, you take a psoriasis thing and then your liver fails and you take a liver thing, and then your body, but the stem cells and medicine, like ayahuasca, it's like you're taking a universal that allows spirit to actually go to the places that need to be cleaned. So, in ayahuasca, it goes to the places that you need to clean, and you might find spots in your gut or your heart or your neck or your voice, your throat, or you might find energetic spots everywhere. Sometimes even your knees, it could be anywhere. Same with the stem cells, stem cells are just, they're in this state of I will become whatever is necessary to help the body, and then the body's divine intelligence then directs the stem cells to just have more fuel to repair, based upon an intelligence that's far greater than any doctor could ever do, because it's in direct communication with your own innate intelligence. And like both of these, that understanding about how to heal, like with the universal supportive spirit, rather than thinking, being really clever, and being like the... There's a place for that. Like, "Alright, you have too much yeast, maybe take a fluconazole, it's fine." If you got a staph infection, go get your antibiotics. I get it, there's a point to all of that medicine. I appreciate that there are targeted things for certain specific situations. But when you're talking about real health--
SHAWN: Healing.
AUBREY: Healing, you've got to really trust that you're doing things that spirit can help guide to the root cause, what's the root source of this. Not masking the symptoms, but what's the root source? That's a parallel, interestingly, between stem cells and medicine work. So there's a future vision of, what does it look like to go clear all of the psychic trauma and all of that, and then move from a series of ayahuasca treatments to a series of stem cell treatments, to then rebuild your body with the new awareness and intelligence of what you need to be, to be the beast that you need to become.
SHAWN: I've had a lot of conversation with him about that. It's an amazing thought. And I went through it. I'm maybe the first and only person to ever actually go through such treatments and the ayahuasca cleaning the body and then going with the stem cell. Because I can feel the stem cell inside of me. I had my own effects, like it felt like ayahuasca living in my body. I felt a little sick for a couple of days. And then it cleared up. I felt pains in my shoulders, and it cleared away. I felt a pain in my back and it cleared away. Like it was moving through my system as the healing process was happening. It was going through any aches and pains I have inside of my body.
AUBREY: Well, this is I think, as we start to really understand the nature of who we are, and the nature of spirit, and the nature of it, we're in the best time we've ever been in because there's technology and access that's available. And it's not completely democratized because of the costs. Still there's barriers to being able to do these things. But we're building towards a world where medicines in some form of this or another can be democratized, where people can really find. And you may not be able to get stem cells yet, but you can probably find some cold water, you can definitely find some breathing, some breathwork indefinitely. You can definitely make better diet choices. You can definitely, there's so many--
SHAWN: Exercise.
AUBREY: Exercise. You don't even need a gym to exercise. Nature can be your gym. There's a million things that you can do. So it's just about the desire, like do you want it? And to really implant that desire. Then as you grow in capacity, and as you grow in your ability, you'll be able to unlock greater and greater technologies, which will help you deal with greater and greater challenges. That's the game.
SHAWN: That's the game.
AUBREY: The biggest game. Love you, my brother.
SHAWN: Love you. Thank you.
AUBREY: Thanks, everybody, for tuning in. It's at @thenativeguides if you're looking to get in touch with Shawn. I love you guys, and I'll see you next week.