Matías De Stefano opens the episode singing an ancient song to the muse of history to help us remember. This would normally be beautiful. Except the ancient song is from ATLANTIS, and is sung in the Atlantean language that Matias remembers from a past life in the post-diluvian city of Khem!  

I totally understand if you are skeptical. Me too. But I just ask that if nothing else you listen to the song at the start of the podcast and see if it feels true in your body. I bet you five dollars that it will, and if ever I run into you we can settle our debts ;) Regardless of what you believe, this is one of the most important conversations on how we can meaningfully create the world we desperately desire.

AUBREY: All right, as we get started here, Matias, I want to just offer everybody who's listening an invitation. And the invitation is to try to feel truth in your body because a lot of what we're going to be talking about, even the premise of our conversation, the premise being that you can remember. Your past lives, lived in different civilizations and different star systems and different existences that in and of itself stretches people's beliefs and it stretches their mind to say, “I don't know about all of this.” So I just invite you to, instead of your ideas and the field of belief that you're currently existing in, just see if you can feel what feels true to you. See if it feels true, see what the resonance is in your own body. Because I really believe that we have that ability to detect something that's true, something that's real. And so that's the invitation as we go into this conversation is just see what feels true. And if we do that, we'll have a pretty fun ride here, I think, my friend. It's been great spending this week here with you, obviously. Lots of amazing, incredible things, but one of those amazing, incredible things, which I think might help people drop into a sense of truth, which it has for many of the people who've been here is a song, music, music being like the mathematics of the cosmos of creation itself. And you have songs that you remember from the time that you were in Chem, which is a civilization post Atlantis, settled in Egypt. And you mentioned you've sung two of those songs to us, one of which is a lullaby. And one of which is a song to the sunset, but you mentioned a third song and I'd love for you to explain what that song is. And then maybe just give us a sample of that song, just to invite people into a feeling of something that might be different than what they believe is possible. 

MATIAS: Yes. It's a poem actually, built as a song that tells, is someone asking to the muse of history to tell the story of all the men and women that have bravely walked throughout the planet and had created our history. So this person is telling, please tell me all this so I can tell the truth of our path to everyone. And that you very well know, muse, it says, the future is actually our past. So, it's kind of, tell me the history of everyone that lived before so I can tell everyone about our future, which is our past.

AUBREY: Which is some deep, deep wisdom, because there's a famous quote, “those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.” 

MATIAS: And I guess it's a good vibration to start when it's about talking to people about history. So I'm very shy to it. 

AUBREY: Yeah, I know, but it's just me and you, buddy.

MATIAS: Okay. It's Atlantean language.

AUBREY: What strikes me when I hear that is that we have forgotten our history. We've forgotten our history and there's a long history of things that exist outside of earth, but we've forgotten our own history here on earth. And there's people discovering monuments and Graham Hancock's writing books about them, about civilizations 12,000 years ago and about all of these different things. And we're starting to understand, but it's just the thread of that memory. And hearing a song all of a sudden makes all of these empty structures and buildings and ruins, it brings them back to life in a way, and reminds us that there is real people with real songs and real love and children and lovers and culture and all of these things that are lost to us, but thanks to you and potentially some other, what you call memory cells, beings that are able to remember, we can start to bring back a memory of some of that history, which can hopefully help us guide our way towards a more beautiful future. Because that's what a lot of us are worried about right now is what the fuck is going to happen with our future. So going back then and helping us remember some of our history, like, just tell us a bit about the culture, the place, the families, the life in Chem, where that song comes from.

MATIAS: Well, the first thing that I started to remember was only the people. Usually, when we talk about the past lives and most of the time we only concentrate on talking about the buildings, about the technology and all that. But when I was a child, I could only remember all my links with others, the bonds that we had to one another, and I was suffering a lot because I was missing a lot of people that didn't exist, and I was asking my guides why I was remembering the people, the feelings and not the history, 

AUBREY: So you had a sense that you had guides, even that early. 

MATIAS: Yeah. I had the guides since I was born and they were guiding me to understand what was happening to me. So I was asking them why I am remembering this specifically and not maybe how the pyramids were built or stuff like that. And they said that even if the stones had the vibration of the memory, even if the cards had the records of everything that happened, our goal was not to talk about that, it was to talk about the people that recorded the information there. And the only way you can access that is through the memory that is in yourselves. And coded in energy and the energy is what you call emotion. So if you don't remember the emotion of the people that lived in that time, you can not remember why they would record some information in the stones, you need to record the culture and the culture is about bounds in between each one of the people in a community. So that's why it's so important. And sometimes, well, even more important to remember the life of the people and how you felt them more than understanding the history of the rocks, so you could understand it better. That's why to understand a building, you have to understand the way that people thought at that time. And so I was really grateful to be able to remember that with my family there. 

AUBREY: So let me just pause one second and just invite people into that reality where, think of all the people that we love in our life and how hard it's going to be to let go of those people to say goodbye. We've all had to say goodbye to people in this life and it's so hard. And of course we believe like, okay, then when we die, fresh start, we don't think about those people anymore. But for you, you had people that you loved, that you remembered from many lives and you missed them. 

MATIAS: I spent my teenagehood mourning for a lot of people. 

AUBREY: Of course. You had mothers and children and lovers and people. 

MATIAS: In order to reach the information that is useful for the people, so I can now explain the universe, the history and all that, I had to mourn a lot of people that I was sharing with that reality. So I had to feel them acknowledge that they were dead. And cry at them, again. And then I could understand what was happening in the environment. So I can explain the history and the dimensions and so on. So it's been a very emotional path before the data that I neutrally can share. 

AUBREY: Yeah. When you think about that time, did you know what your Guides were like, what are your guides? And when did you realize, like, first of all, what are they? And when did you realize what they were? 

MATIAS: Well, you can explain it from different perspectives. A guide is basically someone that lives from the fifth dimension, which is a consciousness that can see the ideas and the purpose of everything that is around. So it doesn't have a conditioning from space or time. You can talk to them and they can see everything and therefore, they can guide you. Who are they? They are usually beings that are not being born, that they are all the time in the fifth dimension, that they don't have a wheeling of being born 

AUBREY: Even though it's boring as hell in the fifth dimension, they don't want to come back.

MATIAS: No, it's not boring. Some planets are boring, but with the fifth dimension. But when you are in the fifth dimension, it's nice. You cannot compare actually. 

AUBREY: I just say that, 'cause you mentioned that in another podcast we had that in the fifth dimension with all possibilities. There's no surprise. 

MATIAS: Oh no, there's no surprise. 

AUBREY: There's no mystery, there's no anything. 

MATIAS: But for them it is the natural thing. 

AUBREY: Yeah. But a lot of beings from there, we think of that as ultimately in instantly better, “oh it's better!” You know everything, you got everything figured out, you got all that but it's not necessarily better 

MATIAS: No 

AUBREY: This also is magical because of our limited knowledge, because of actually, even our distortion, even the ways in which we can't see the truth allows us to live really unique lives. So I was just referring back to that but of course 

MATIAS: It's boring for someone that used to live in the third dimension a lot. And goes to the fifth dimension and suddenly it's like, wow, I understand everything. But then you have this thing of, I need to not understand something to have fun. 

AUBREY: Yeah, for sure. Let me give you a great example for people who don't understand how important it is to not actually understand everything. I did an Iboga journey. I've told this story before, it was my very first Iboga journey. And Iboga, physiologically, it elevates your heart rate, so you have a really high heart rate, and it's really hard to see, and you get very nauseous and very dizzy, this is my experience, at least, there's a buzzing in your ears, and I went to go to the bathroom, and I went to go grab my penis, to go pee. And I whiffed, I missed because my penis had shrunk to the smallest possible size. It was like the density of Pluto. It was like so contracted in. And I started to freak out cause I'm on psychedelics and I didn't know this was coming. They didn't tell me that this was going to happen. So I was like, this is a problem. So I grabbed it and I was trying to get some blood in there. I didn't know, is this going to be permanent? So I was like, all right, I know what to do here. I will start thinking about pussy. I will start thinking about pussy and that'll bring some blood back into my penis. But on Iboga, which allowed me to see the truth of everything, I saw exactly how a pussy worked, why it existed, why the folds were there, what the cervix was doing, and it was like, “no, please, no,” 

MATIAS: “This is not turning me on!”

AUBREY: It was the opposite. So for my whole life, I can look at a pussy and go like, oh, goodness. Oh boy, and I could feel this thing that just aroused, but on Iboga it was like, no, I completely understand it. Absolutely everything. And there was no like attraction, 

MATIAS: No joy on it 

AUBREY: To that thing. So it's a really clear example for me in my own mind of how sometimes not seeing something allows this magical thing to occur. Which I was in like fifth dimensional viewing. And it just didn't turn me on 

MATIAS: Now, of course not. This is when you have like this really, wow, like you understand everything. And someone from the fifth dimension says, “of course, that's logic, that's how it works.” So there's no fun in it. So that's why the guides are basically a part of ourselves that lives completely in that stage of consciousness. And they have no clue how it is to experience that. So, they are trying to guide us according to, what is the best option for us, to experience, but also for them, because we are all one actually, it's not that they are other beings 

AUBREY: Your guides are you, in another dimensional reality?

MATIAS: Yes. Even when you have many, sometimes when your goal is to help a lot of people or to talk to a lot of people that we are doing now, you have many guides, but because some of them are connected to other people. Or they are other people in the fifth dimension that are helping you to help them. So it's actually a whole one thing, but we perceive from the third dimension, like if they are different people or different beings, but actually it's ourselves. So we are the ones that experience, they are the ones that know what we are experiencing. 

AUBREY: And you became aware. You were aware of that reality. Did you remember that that's what they were or did they tell you that that's what they were? 

MATIAS: I remembered when I was 16 years old. What they were, what I was. But I couldn't really understand it properly until I was 24, maybe.

AUBREY: But they were just basically whispering in your ear since you were born.

MATIAS: Yeah. It feels here, in the heart.

AUBREY: Whispering in your heart, is a better way to say it. 

MATIAS: But they talk to you and they are always whispering. They are always saying, what to do, where to go to, because actually all the reality that you have outside is an extension of the fifth dimension. So that's what we call signals. “Oh, there's a signal.” “Oh, there's 11/11 all the time,” but actually it's yourself telling you this way. It’s not something outside telling you to go somewhere is yourself showing you, this is where you're heading to. So, that's what signs are about. 

AUBREY: The Greeks, they deified this in a way, they called it the Damon. The Damon was this idea of this part of you that was driving you towards some fruition of your ultimate potential and then they actually understood that in a certain way. And as the Greeks did, they always externalized a lot of these things, a muse, a daemon, all of these things were external gods, 

MATIAS: Yeah. They put a different name.

AUBREY: But ultimately, I think that was just a way for them to understand a part of themselves. And so this idea that there's this part of us that's whispering to us, you might say, “oh, I wish I had guides.” Yeah, you do. 

MATIAS: You do, constantly.

AUBREY: You do. And whether you're aware of it or not, actually, sometimes when you're unconscious and you're not aware of anything, they're actually guiding you in ways that you don't even know. But if you slow down, get quiet and really listen, you'll feel that pull from your heart.

MATIAS: Isn't that moment when you just turn back to the past and say, “Oh, now I get it now.” I understand why this happened in order for this to happen for that to happen. And you immediately find the logic in all that. That's because you were guided to, and that brings it to the question that I guess we talked about already, which is, so we don't have free will, because if everything was a logic, so it's the fifth dimensional beings that are actually guiding our life to do what we are doing, and the answer is, yes, of course, we don't have free will. But the thing is that we, as humans, believe that we are separate from them and that they are guiding our lives like if we are slaves, but actually we are just the finger of one being. So we are doing what the rest of the being is intending to, because we are not separate from them, we are them. So we are just the physical experience, the physical creation of something that is bigger. So, it's not that someone is guiding us, it's ourselves. Moving us through different types of options.

AUBREY: What I've understood is because like a lot of the reductionist biologists and neurologists, different people will, they'll make arguments about free will by looking at the brain, which is the looking at the third dimension and saying, if I look just at the third dimension, there isn't any free will. And they can still be right and we can still have free will because we're a multidimensional being. And actually our choice points are accessible from our other dimensional reality. Like we're choosing in a place that cannot be measured in a certain way. But then it also sometimes feels like, is that kind of accurate to say? Like that's the access point for free will is the fact that we're actually choosing from a place of consciousness that's not actually residing in third dimensional matter.

MATIAS: Yeah, we have the free choice of experiencing something from a level of consciousness that we are really free, in which we are really free. Here we are conditioned by so many things that we don't really have the freedom, and that's not a bad thing. Actually, if we would have the freedom to do whatever, there wouldn't exist reality. That's what we call the sixth dimension. So in the sixth dimension you are free to create whatever, in the third dimension you are not. Because you are the result of what you have chosen in the sixth dimension. So, the thing is that it's like, if the hand of your body wants to emancipate and be free. So it will die because it doesn't have any sense by itself. It's just that we tend to believe that everything is separated. And try to understand the whole cosmos through the hand and not through the whole. So, that's why we believe we need guidance or we need someone to go to, because we believe we're separated, but actually being where we are now, we are always guided. So we just have to open ourselves to be guided, not to ask for guidance. Because we always have guidance, but we are not open to receive it because we're waiting for, I don't know, some angel to appear and say, you have to go there. Actually, we are always guided. We just have to be open to it. And the other thing is, for a hand to be a hand doesn't have to go to the heart to find the heart. It just has to feel the pulse. So, being where you are, you're connected to the entire universe. No need to go to the core of the universe. 

AUBREY: And to bring this back to this original idea, it's like we are a part of a field of choice, like a field of choice that we're making. And we have like, even the hand, I can move my finger this way, and make little moves and do different things. Choose this flavor, put on this shirt, whatever I want to do, but we're part of a bigger field of choice that we've been choosing. And we have a little bit of a way to choose within that, but to tap into this larger field of choice of what our souls have been choosing and then move through that journey in a way that's going to bring about our own best life and hopefully a better life for the planet, right? Because if we actually recognize our interconnectedness, that actually starts to reduce the amount of distortion that's causing us to actually harm others and harm the collective. 

MATIAS: Yeah, because you're doing a lot of strength, all of your forces to find the truth or to do something that you think it's right. And you put that thing outside, so you're losing so much time not being who you are supposed to be that it harms others. So as much you are what you are supposed to be. The better it is for the whole, for everything. So a cell in your body that doesn't want to be the cell that it is supposed to be becomes cancer.

AUBREY: Yeah. It loses touch with reality. Just decides to replicate on its own. 

MATIAS: Replicate something else. 

AUBREY: So all, the aspect of us, if we look at our entire psyche, like cells, then the aspect of us that wants to accumulate more money or accumulate more power, accumulate more validation. It's this looking at that thing in isolation of the whole. And so it's like, “Oh, this is to grow, grow, grow, grow as much as possible. We'll get as many followers and many likes as much, as much cash, as much validation, much blah, blah, blah, all of this.” But it's not actually looking at the entire field. It seems like then from a kind of meta perspective, like really the goal, one of the goals we should have is to reconnect ourselves, the entirety of ourselves. So we don't have different aspects, different cellular pockets doing different things, unaware of each other. So reconnect ourself into wholeness with our multidimensional reality and the entirety of our third dimensional reality. And then connect our own wholeness with the wholeness of the planet with the wholeness of the cosmos. This is kind of another way to look at everybody's like, oh, I want enlightenment or whatever, but it's really about kind of just remembering our wholeness. 

MATIAS: And as I said once, remember is to put the members together, is to acknowledge that each one of the parts. 

AUBREY: To re-member. 

MATIAS: To re-member. That's the origin of the word remember, to put the members together. All the parts had a logic in the whole. So when you remember is not remembering the past, it is to put all the different parts together. So when you put all the different parts together you have a body and you have the logic of why you need a kidney? Why you need a liver? Why you need a mouth? Where you need an eye? And all of that makes sense because. It's remembered. But if your eye wants to be the heart. If your heart wants to be the stomach, if your stomach wants to be your arm, they are forgetting, basically, which means that they are not getting their part. That's what usually happens in our reality, but it's not something wrong, it's part of the experience, it's part of acknowledging. So if you don't recognize each side of every organ and you don't recognize yourself in others and if you don't see others as an example, if you don't have the desire to reach something, you're not experiencing. So the whole point. That we are experiencing now is to find out who we are and we do it by comparison. So it's not a bad thing. It's a process we are heading to, but when we start to look into ourselves through consciousness, that brings us apart from our real goal, which is to be what we are supposed to be. And sometimes this thinking can be mistaken by someone saying, for example, the caste religion in India, like saying, if you were born poor, where you're meant to be poor, for example. That we can mistake this sentence that I'm explaining with the religion through the different families. 

AUBREY: Which is just a mechanism of control, but not actually listening to what each soul individually, 

MATIAS: It’s basically, you took that information and you said, “Oh, it is useful in politics and economics.” But it's not that, actually, it's not, Oh, if you were born like this, you are meant to be this. It's not about your context, it's about who you are within. So you can be in a very poor situation, but within that you are going to be, I don't know, someone that changes everything. So that's the potential you have. So it's about who you really are, not who the environment tells you where you're supposed to be. 

AUBREY: Yeah, this reminds me of a story that Mark Gaffney, who studies the deep wisdom of Solomon and some of the old mystery traditions that came through Jewish Kabbalists history. And there's a story of Zusha of Nippoli. And Zusha, as the story goes, was on his deathbed and his followers and his family came to him and they found him crying and they freaked out because this is their mystic. This is their guide. And why is he crying on his deathbed? This is a disaster. And so Zusha, Zusha, why are you crying? And you can't be crying. What do you mean? You've talked to us about what happens after death and you can't be crying. He says, “wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Let me tell you why I'm crying.” If I died and I went to the beyond and I was greeted there and in that tradition by angels or by God, and I was greeted by God and God said, “Zusha, why weren't you more like Moses?” Zusha said, “I wouldn't be crying then, because I would just tell God, look, God, I didn't have Moses's charisma. I didn't have his leadership. It wasn't me. I couldn't do it.” And Zusha said, “I wouldn't be crying then.” And then if he died and he went to God and God said, “Zusha, why weren't you more like Rumi? Why didn't you write beautiful poetry about the divine and allow people to drink the sweet wine of your words and feel my essence?” He'd be like, “ah, God, I'm not a poet. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.” So Zusha said, “I wouldn't be crying.” But Zusha said, “I'm crying because when I go and see God, God will say, Zusha, Why weren't you Zusha?” And it's just such a striking story because we try so hard to be somebody else, to be like Moses or Rumi or this person or that person. But really all the whole cosmos is begging for us to do is just be you, be your unique self, be this unique face of the divine. 

MATIAS: Yep. That's the whole point.

AUBREY: Yep. So those of us, there's a lot of people going to be listening to this and being like, I have family and friends and I want to shake them. I want to shake them so that they can feel this. They can feel what this feels like and they can come awake and move out of their fears and what you call distortions. And come to a place of inner peace and love and joy and bliss and living their true existence. What advice do you have for those of us who just want this experience for other people, want other people to live their fullest, truest life? 

MATIAS: Don't do it

AUBREY: Don't do it.

MATIAS: That's it. Because when you are trying to push others to experience something that they are not ready to, you're creating a trauma on them. And the trauma is much more difficult to heal than just experiencing it by yourself. So when someone is pushing you to leave something that you are not, that your cells, your mind, your emotions are not ready to handle, it's impossible for them to really appreciate what they are seeing, feeling, experiencing. So if you are experiencing this and you are desperate for others to do the same. You didn't understand the whole point of it, that they are you. And you are the part of them that is taking care of becoming aware so that the others do their job until they come to ask you. For example, I usually tell the story of my dad. My dad doesn't believe in what I feel, what I do, what I, whatever. I met my dad when I was 27 years old. So not because I was looking for him. I was looking for my brothers and sisters, but eventually I ended up having a better relationship with him than with my brothers and sisters. They are younger, so I never talked to him about anything of this, like nothing, just talking about trips and what I did when I went to this place or the other, but I never explained anything about nothing, other lives, nothing, because he's not interested in, and his way of understanding the world is so different from mine that why I would lose my energy into trying to change his life when he loves how it is. Until he experienced some things around because maybe I invited him to some trips with me and the thing got weird and he was like what is happening and he started to wonder. So he said “what happened here?” And I didn't say any more. I don't go profound on it, just the questions he has. And then more questions came and suddenly he said, “okay, when you do the next trip, I want to go or let's see what happens.” But he's there like, because he loves what he feels when everything happens. But he doesn't get it. And I don't explain anything. He's just coming closer at the time he needed, and he understood the changes of his life and how he is staring now at his own reality. Like why I'm living this reality or this life, if it is not what I am really loving. It was just what I had. So he started to change a little bit to see what else is in here. Like even if he's resilient to all this, he starts to ask and say, “we need to talk about this” Or this kind of thing. So he starts to wonder, to ask me questions and stuff, but all the questions are his. I never say anything, just what he asks. And because of this, he's doing the change. If the first time on the first day I met him, I would say, “look we are nothing, we are the one.” And because of this there's no time, no space and blah blah. He would say “I'm going to go play golf and don't bring me this shit.” So I guess that the best thing to do is not do anything but be yourself. Because when the other people around see how you feel, how you act, if you're feeling fine with yourself and everything is improving because you're being yourself, who we are supposed to be, the others are starting to look for it. We want to be ourselves too, how can we do in order to be better? We see how you are. So when they do a question, you answer only that question. 

AUBREY: Yeah. So you become the living invitation to be yourself, by being yourself.

MATIAS: Otherwise, you lose a lot of time being yourself because you're trying for others to be who you are. But you are not being you because you are trying for others to be you. 

AUBREY: Right. 

MATIAS: So you miss the whole point. 

AUBREY: And we're in a time now where a lot of people are looking at different people, a lot of people look at me. And so let's just use that as an example, a lot of times, potentially I can get caught in this idea of like, I want to transmit this thing to other people. But I think actually, most of the time, probably why a lot of people are listening now is that I'm genuinely just trying to figure out how to live my life in the best way possible and be me to the fullest extent of what me is, and then just share the stories. Like this is a window into what's happening with me. That's what I do in my newsletter. Most of the time it's just, all right, this thing happened. This is the way, this is the dark place I went into my mind and this is the thing that I figured out. And also even the company I created Onnit, it's like, oh, well, I created this thing because I wanted this result for me. And if you guys like this too, if you're like me, which most, many people are, we're all a lot more connected than we are different than that actually creates the thing that you're looking for. But I think a lot of people get that wrong where they're trying to push something out to other people. When really the strongest thing we can do is just live our own uniqueness to the fullest extent and allow that to be the permanent living invitation for everybody. 

MATIAS: Yeah. It is funny. Sometimes when I read some comments in my social media, maybe I post a picture being funny or on a holiday, maybe, and there are some people that you can tell they are moved, because they say you should be sharing consciousness content, not you just having fun. And I'm like, “well, you're missing the whole point of what is living, because what is consciousness–”

AUBREY: This is consciousness content. Me laughing and like celebrating a birthday with my friends? Yeah. This is it. 

MATIAS: So, if you are not allowed to be you because you are supposed to be like a holy person or whatever, that's not the point of being aware. The point of being aware is to be you. And I have my moon in Sagittarius. You have your moon in Capricorn. So I'm sorry. Sorry. 

AUBREY: Some people are like, “God, what does he even mean?” 

MATIAS: Well, Muni Capricorn, hard work, suffering, but Muni Sagittarius is having fun. So, I'm going to be that, I'm going to have fun. So sometimes I'm sharing something that is profound for me, that I discover, that I'm sharing that maybe it's useful for some people, and sometimes I'm going to be laughing. So having fun and that's me and that's also what I am transmitting as a consciousness path. But because my structure is that one. So, if you are trying to be aware, following how others think that becoming aware is, you're missing the point because the whole point is being you. And if you have to get fun, if you like to go to Disney world, you're not thinking about all capitalism is blah, blah, blah. No, you're having fun. In a few years, Disney will be underwater. So have fun now. So I don't know. It's kind of these things. 

AUBREY: Is Disneyland really going to be underwater at some point? Yeah, for sure. So what's going to happen? How's it going to happen? 

MATIAS: Well, we are contaminating the world, the water is going up, Florida, it's all wet land. So, I wouldn't buy land there. But now is the time to enjoy Florida. 

AUBREY: Yeah, get in there. 

MATIAS: Not in 15 years. 

AUBREY: Get in there. The most casual way to say something incredibly ominous, but we'll let it slide.

MATIAS: Well, if you're a moon in Capricorn, you start to buy land in the middle of the States. But if you are a Sagittarius, you would go to Florida now.

AUBREY: Yeah. Just live it up. 

MATIAS: And then we will see what happens. 

AUBREY: I mean, is there a chance? Cause what you're talking about is pollution creating a warming effect, which is then melting ice caps, which is then raising water levels globally. I mean, there's been different global floods before those, like what the best evidence that I've heard is that a meteor strike actually like in the heat from that actually created a flash melting process of all of this ice and then it flooded and that's what actually wiped out Atlantis and these different things. So that was like a meteorological event, but we're actually creating our own environmental conditions. Do we have a chance to stop this? Do we have a chance to pull this thing back in and figure it out and create this kind of mass ripple effect of awakening and consciousness? We're like, Whoa, we got to fucking stop 

MATIAS: To stop what? 

AUBREY: The environmental destruction that might– 

MATIAS: Well, the whole planet, everyone must stop yesterday to do that. So, no, it's done. 

AUBREY: Damn, that's heavy. 

MATIAS: So now you have to adapt. But how do you adapt? Well, you have 50 years to not doing it worst. Because otherwise it will be the freezing. It's the opposite, So, it can compensate. The planet always compensate the weather. But this is actually something that happens all the time and it's not just on us, we are doing it the worst but it's something that naturally is happening 

AUBREY: We live on a planet that goes through these periods. We all know about the ice age, we’ve all seen the Disney movie.

MATIAS: And we have to be grateful for that because this means that the planet is alive. If everything is constantly the same, that means like we are going to Mars and Mars is dead. So I would rather be on a planet that constantly changes than a planet that never changes because we feel safe. 

AUBREY: So what you're saying is we're accelerating. We might be accelerating a natural process. And this natural process is heating, freezing, heating, freezing, and we're accelerating it with what we're doing, but we're not the entire causal agent nor should we take entire responsibility for this next freeze because it's happened before and it will happen again. 

MATIAS: It's good to say that it's our blame because people will get aware and start to be responsible of what we do, because when you say, well, it's the natural process that they, okay, let's throw the garbage. So, it's good that a lot of people is saying it's on us. 

AUBREY: Taking accountability. 

MATIAS: Even if the numbers, can tell you it's not, and the natural process of the planet tells you is not you're doing it worst and faster, but it doesn't mean that it's only because of us and it doesn't mean that it's not our responsibility because we are the aware species of this planet. So we have to take care of it, but taking care of it doesn't mean we have to stop it, so nothing changed. The goal of all this is for it to change with harmony. So, there will always be species in the process of extinction. Always, because that's how evolution works. Otherwise you wouldn't be here if the dinosaurs are here.

AUBREY: I mean, maybe I would. 

MATIAS: Maybe, but it would be difficult. 

AUBREY: Yeah. I'm just joking. 

MATIAS: Very difficult. So some species have to leave in order for others to survive and new ones will come. And that's evolution. It's just that we are so moralistic regarding evolution that even the ones that take care of nature, forgets the basics of nature, which is the constant change. You cannot keep the same things all the time like you have them. You can take care of that process to be natural and not to be something because you are unaware and you are killing someone or some species on purpose. Of course, we have to take care of that, but it doesn't mean that everything should be like we have it now.

AUBREY: Static, yeah. 

MATIAS: Yeah, because we are here because everything changes and a lot of animals had to die in order for us to survive. And it was natural. It's not that we kill them. 

AUBREY: Yeah. So I have had this feeling and this kind of vision that's come to me many times of what our purpose is as human beings. It's to actually, as you said, be the most aware part, like the neurons of the planet. And be aware of the changes that are happening, look at all of the species and look at all of life and be champions of life itself and allow and try to shepherd graceful transitions between that. And I also got a message that potentially, with our technology, like potentially the earth wants us like the earth as a conscious being is, as we know, and I don't think we need to go and explain the earth as a conscious being. Some people might not agree, but we know it is, that the earth almost wants us to develop this technology because with this technology, then we can use, if we were aware, instead of trying to blow each other up with it all the time, we could use it to help protect life. And there's movies about it, like Armageddon, or that latest movie, I forget the name of it, don't look up and where we could actually go and divert. A meteor that was gonna come, an asteroid that was gonna come and strike the planet and wipe out life for some million years.

MATIAS: And you can clean the planet with AI. 

AUBREY: Yeah, you could. So, we could use it to clean the planet, we could use it to protect the planet, we could use it to actually shepherd and conserve life in another cold freeze or another flood. We could help use our technology to move and allocate. And this is what we're supposed to be doing. It's just really protecting the whole being like the champions, like, all right, we got technology. We got this awareness. We got all of these choices that we can make and we can just come together and stop being like bickering children, then we can actually get this whole thing working cohesively. 

MATIAS: But it's important to understand that we have technologies in 60 years. So if you compare the whole history of humanity, we've been trying to manage the fire for thousands of years. We've been trying to not to create a fire and burn the whole forest. Until we manage how to handle the fire to cook. So before that, it was a mess because we had no idea how to handle it. The first people that were practicing with the fire, they created these burns and many forests were burned because they had no idea how to handle fire. We've been thousands of years until the people knew how to melt iron, how to build tools, how to warm up a house, how to cook and how important it was for us to cook with fire because it changed the whole process inside of ourselves to make it more intelligent. So it took a long time. And imagine that we have had this technology since 60, 70 years, it went worldwide just in what, 30 years?

AUBREY: Yeah. 

MATIAS: So it's nothing compared to how much time do we need to understand how properly something works? 

AUBREY: Yeah. So like all of the technology we have, we're just light. We're starting forest fires because we just don't understand it. So like, so social media is a fucking forest fire. 

MATIAS: Yep. 

AUBREY: But also it's fire. And that fire is powerful. And when we learn how to use that fire, then we create this interconnected planet. Which is a very significant thing, our ability to, because we obviously have lost the ability, well most of us have lost the ability to do that telepathically. So now we've created a technology that actually allows us to be interconnected which is a significant thing I've heard you talk about that. 

MATIAS: Yeah it's very important, that is very important and something that we all must be aware of that we are right now, children, playing with toys of technology that we don't actually know much of how to use it. Some people does, but these people don't mean that these people know everything. They're just aware of the possibilities of it, but not the consciousness of it. So we are in that process of trying to understand the tools that we have discovered recently. And that's a normal process that every species goes through for a long time. It's just that we are so connected right now with so many options and so many minds that a lot of minds can already see the results of a bad use of what we just discovered 30 years ago. So we have the benefit of being able to do it in a very fast way. Like, well, maybe in 50 years, we can all become aware of why we have this technology and how to use it? Something that for others in the past, maybe we needed 2000 years to do that. And now we can do it very fast because a lot of people, a lot of awareness, a lot of people become conscious about it. So we can do it faster but we should not forget that we are still in the process of discovering what do we have. And that's why there's a lot of children using the technology in a way a three year old would use it.

AUBREY: Yeah. I mean, I imagine let's just bring this back like imagine you had a time machine and you went back. Well, I don't know, 20,000 years, your 20,000 years ago is different than most people's, but I don't saw, no, let's go back to a primitive time where weapons were really simple clubs, maybe, if they had that, I don't know how much they even fought back then, but assume that there was some fighting for different territories and food, and reproductive advantage and things like that. I imagine that was ubiquitous. Imagine if you just went back and you had an array of like full on samurai swords and samurai armor, something simple, just really sharp steel, really durable steel and really protective armor. If you just dropped that into those people, you could hope that their consciousness would be like, “Oh, this is awesome, but we will never use this. I won't cut another person with this. That would be rude.” But like some, somebody's urge to power would be like, “wait a minute, I can put this thing on and I'm fucking invincible  and I can rule this whole land and have 50 wives and a fucking build my own drive.” Like the urge, we have this urge and this is the urge of the part of us that's in distortion, that's in the delusion that we're not connected. And that part of us has urges, urges for power, urges for dominance that are built in. And so if we have the technology, of course, we're going to use it. So of course, those people who want power now and have these urges, they're going to use social media to divide us so that they could control us or use it to manipulate this election or this way like it's just the same as if there was a samurai sword back a long time ago and someone's like, wait a minute. You mean, I can cut people with this and no one can fuck with me. I'll be the strongest. 

MATIAS: Yeah, and maybe you gave it to him, to Harvard some fruits, to cut it in half. But they said, “Oh, I can kill someone with this and everyone would be afraid of me.” But “no, it is a knife to cut apples.” “No, no, I can kill him.” So, it's your level of awareness that makes you have the same tool in different ways to use the same tool in different options. So we are still trying to understand that because this is the first time actually, in history, that the unconscious people and the conscious people have the same technology, which is to be able to connect, communicate, use the same guns. Of course, that some people with more money with more money will get better tools, but we all are connected to kind of the same. We all can share the information with the rich people and the poor people at the same time. And this is the first time ever that this happens. So this means that there are a lot of options with the same tools. So many options from the need, from the discovery, from anything. So, this time created so many options for the entire world that we are still learning how to play with it. And that's normal. That's normal. And it doesn't justify the chaos or the killings or the wars. It doesn't justify that. But it kinds of makes you understand that we are not living through consciousness. We are living through morality, which is a totally different concept, and is very different from one thing. So, we are trying to bring consciousness through morality. We are trying to use technology through morality, and we are trying to build up a new humanity through morality.

AUBREY: Yeah, explain that. I don't know if I understand it. 

MATIAS: Morality comes from the Latin word, modis. That means to inhabit a place. In English, I guess you have the word morade, but it's the same word. Morality is the place where you live in. So, a morade. So you have that place and you have, I don't know, 30 people living in that same valley, for example. So a moris is that valley, moris. So that's the place where you live in. Then you create some rules in order to live there. You cannot hide the mountain because you don't know what it's there. God is in that mountain there, so you nobody goes there, the river is the one that gives you the food, blah, blah, this animal must be kept alive because it's sacred, this home is a temple, you kind of locate kind of a constitution of how the things should be in order for everyone to live properly and in peace inside that valley. That concept is called morality. 

AUBREY: Yeah. So like the cultural norms, the mores, I think, are cultural norms.

MATIAS: Culture basically comes from cultivate. So, what are the grains or the animals that you are cultivating is your culture. So what you eat is how you live. Because the culture gives you something called, I forgot the word, but it's something that you do every year, ceremony. So the ceremonies that you do every year is something that helps you remember what you are cultivating and that creates culture. The culture is to keep going into cultivating that. So people say, “Oh, I have to keep doing the corn because otherwise we don't have food.” So you create the celebration of the corn and this kind of thing. So, culture comes from what you cultivate and morality is the rules that you have in the place where you are doing the culture. So it's all about agriculture, basically. So what happens if someone goes out from the valley and goes hike to the mountains and there's another village in the high mountains that does the things very differently because, for example, the animal that was holy down there the cow that gives you the milk it was the only food that they had upstairs in the mountain because nothing can grow, there's no corn. So on the animal, so you have to kill the cow. So the morality of that people is we kill the cow, so we can all eat. And we share and that's our culture. So for this morality to kill the cow is terrible. So if these people have much power they will try to kill them and to impose their morality, saying “you should not kill the cow because it's sacred.” But these people would say, and “what do we eat if we don't have the cow?” So you end with their morality and their way of living is ended too. So you are colonizing a different morality and thinking that my morality is better than theirs, but the context is completely different. So you cannot impose the morality of a valley into a high mountain. That's what morality means. Morality is the way you live in one specific place, so now that we are worldwide connected, morality is something really weird because you cannot impose from here to someone in China or someone in Afghanistan your morality because you live in a very different way than these other people live. And your morality is not the same morality that they have. So now it's not about morality, it’s about consciousness. So, if you try to impose morality into the whole process of becoming one, you are doing a mistake. 

AUBREY: So I understand, definitely, this conflict of different moralities and you can look at what the Catholic Church did for thousands of years. And ultimately trying to impose through fire and sword a universal morality and control that was behind that morality. So there was the unconscious and the pretending about that morality. We see that now in cancel culture in different ways, which has some impetus for a good morality, just like all things do, but to actually, the reason people are using it as jealousy and anger and repressed rage, where they want to cut down something, murder something that's beautiful, so that it becomes no longer possible. So even if there's a lot of like mixture between. What you think you're doing for your own morality and what you're actually doing to serve. Some other purpose, right? So, I definitely understand how these different things, the imposition of morality, and then the hidden latent unconscious drives, they're masked by your morality, it's like so many different things. They were like, “Oh, I'm doing this to be moral.” This is like the very essence of what a lot of people would call woke culture, right? Like it's the guise of morality, but really underneath is rage. And underneath is a lot and desire for dominance, desire to be better than somebody else. And so all of these things exist. But what you're saying is instead of operating by this idea of morality, which isn't even any morality is to go to consciousness. And the implication of what you're saying to me is that consciousness itself has an inherent morality, like first principles of morality. That is like within consciousness itself because of the interconnectedness that comes with consciousness. Like, if I know that you, Matias, are me. And I'm not going to punch you and take your food and put you in a cage and do anything horrible or try to control you a bit. No, fuck no. And so consciousness itself has a true morality. 

MATIAS: Yeah. 

AUBREY: But it's just guided by– 

MATIAS: It's a planetary morality.

AUBREY: It’s a planetary universal back to the first principles morality. And that's what you're saying. It's like we have all of these fucking contrasting, combative, different moralities, ideas coming from culture, mores and customs and all of these different things. And this now, because we're interconnected is creating massive amounts of conflict. And ultimately, if we can move to consciousness, and anchor that and ground that back down into first principles. Then we can start to have a planetary consciousness and a planetary morality will start to emerge. And then we could potentially live our ultimate fruition as guardians of the planet.

MATIAS: Well, actually most of the problems that we have today, if you take a look in the news, it's not because of war or misunderstandings, it’s because of morality. And morality is basically the one that is causing all the chaos. Because universally, moralities that were born in just a small valley in the Middle East, and it has nothing to be a part of the whole planet. So consciousness means something totally different from morality, which is, all the different parts that were cut are together, that's the actual word of consciousness, remembering. So, consciousness is not to become spiritual also. Some people think that you are conscious when you are a spiritual person, but actually it's not. You are a conscious person when you understand that all the differences make the whole. And when you start to see the others as a part of yourself, that completes yourself and that those things that the other has are completing the things that you have lack of. So you are becoming conscious, that's the real meaning of consciousness. You accept the differences and you work for your part and you let the others work for their part. But usually morality comes in, again. And you start to fight because you say, “no that's not the good thing, my way is the best, is better.” But actually, it is not when a lot of thousands of people are holding another way. So, this fight of morality in science and spirituality and religion are the ones that really divide us. It's all about morality. We are now a global civilization. We cannot rule ourselves through morality anymore. Morality is something that helps us survive as tribes. When we were living in valleys and mountains, but now we are a global civilization. So we should not be guided by morality, we should be guided by consciousness.

AUBREY: And what I think scares a lot of people right now is, what appears to be a move to create a global dominant society, a global dominant culture and a globally dominant morality, except what we're all feeling and seeing, which as you're saying, that's not necessarily a bad idea. That's not a bad idea in and of itself to create a global consciousness. However, the morality and that's actually being imposed and what's actually being created is absent of consciousness, which would include the love, which would include the radical celebration and acceptance of people's freedom and that it's absent of that and it's in distortion. So, like the move is not wrong, but the energy behind that move is the problem, really, because it's not coming from the place of true consciousness. 

MATIAS: No, it's coming from a need. A cellular need of imposing your place, like this is my place. This is where I belong. This is what is good because this is what I know. So, that's what we have under the concept of consciousness. We have a hidden morality, which is encoded in ourselves. So we have to work with releasing the idea of who we are, releasing the idea that we know is the best option in order to become conscious. And that's why it's a very tough task to actually become conscious because it's not about, “Oh, now I, now I get it.” It's about how do we act on the planet. How do we do our things in the world? And I say, this is a normal process, we are in the middle of understanding that it's been just a few years since we became a collective global civilization, so we don't know how to handle it yet. We are still bound by nationalisms, which is a way of morality. We still believe about boundaries and all these kinds of things. And we follow only one culture of our countries. And even inside the countries you have different moralities to follow. 

AUBREY: Different religions. 

MATIAS: Religions and so on. So, everyone is fighting to survive under their own. But most people are not aware that we are already a global civilization.  Since the internet, we are not anymore moral people. We are conscious people or we are meant to be. So, it takes a long time for us to really go through all this process of releasing the culture, releasing the idea of who we are, releasing our ideas of morality, it takes a long time because you have to re-educate the cells of your body to be something different. So it's not something that we can do just tomorrow. It's something that will take a long time to do. But as we were sharing yesterday, the first people that must do this are the artists. Artists, musicians, sports stars, this kind of people are the ones that if they do the change by resonance, they change thousands of people because they love them. So by love, you start to change the life of the people towards consciousness. So if those people become conscious and share through consciousness, not through imposing their ideas. But to becoming their own, conscious beings or expectations, the others will resound and this cannot be done by a politician or something like this, because a politician represents just one part, but artists sometimes go beyond, throughout all the different layers of differences. So that's why it goes to the heart, not to the mind. 

AUBREY: There's a great quote. I said that I heard Jamie wheel say it, but I don't know who it's from, but he said, “it's the job of the artist to make the revolution irresistible.” It's like making it so beautiful that because you can feel it like you hear that song or you see that person, you just feel the different energy that comes through. And if you're really listening. You'll have an invitation to a whole different world, a world that exists, which again goes back to what we were saying at the beginning of like, how do we change the world? How do we do the best thing that we possibly can? And ultimately it's by becoming that living invitation. And the more people who are looking at you, the more invitations you're going to be handing out, like you're going to be sending emotional, vibrational E cards, E invites to like, “Hey, come on over here to this more beautiful world. It's great. I love it. You'll be sending those every interaction you have.”

MATIAS: And you're awaking the people that will be the change because sometimes, for example, me, myself, I don't know, I would handle doing that because I'm already 34. I've done my path. And even if I work for the change, I'm not going to be able to do the change because my programs in my cells are old. So I know that I'm not going to leave the change and I am not, I don't have a problem with it because I know I'm the whole world. I will leave it eventually, somehow. So what I am doing is if I share as much as I can of what I have within, the ones that are coming free from those concepts will be able to remember. And they will be the change and start to live in a different way since they are teenagers. 

AUBREY: So it's this multi generational transition.

MATIAS: Yeah, that's what it's all about. We made it up for ourselves. Like, well, I have to live the change and you will, but through others. And we are living the change. Actually, the planet, it's changing so much that it's just that we want to see it in two hours, like in a movie, but the world has never changed so much in such a good way than in the last 10 years. And most of the people can’t see it because we are expecting a paradise on the planet. Like if something amazing should be done in order for us to leave like an utopia. And utopia is that is utopia, which means there is no place for it. So you will never live what you're expecting to live. Never. You have to release that thought, you are living the change that you were expecting, that your parents, your grandfathers, mothers were expecting. Most of our parents were trapped in a system and we are living the freedom of the system, and even though we are complaining and we have freedom, my grandfather had to escape from Italy. Because there was a war and I was just eating spaghetti last week in Italy. Well, I had to have the vaccination stuff in order to see the restaurant, but things changed, but you are able to go there. Now you have these conflicts now, but it's easier. There's a lot of changes that we are living through right now. And if you don't pay attention to those changes, you're going to miss the time of change because you're expecting for something greater to happen that will never happen

AUBREY: So it seems like it's a both and type of situation. One. Radical acceptance for what is and what is changing and also an awareness that in the course of change, things move in a frequency where there's the high points and there's the low points, there's the contractions and there's the expansion. So we can see this now, two years after this crazy pandemic, that's happened here. We can see how so much contraction has also created so much expansion. I mean, people have gotten together, conversations have started, communities have formed, a lot of beautiful things have happened and a lot of dark things have happened and also been exposed as being dark, and these things are coming out. And so instead of lamenting like, “Oh my God, I can't believe I just want 2019 back.” You're like, “no, well, we're in a change, and this is the new reality of the change.” And let's accept that, understand that this is the way it's going, understand that every contraction has inherently its expansion, every end has its beginning, all of these things are in a cycle. And, so then the and part is, we still can have the choice to stand up against some of these things that we don't believe in, like vaccine mandates, for example, we still can say, I accept this changing reality and I'm going to stand for a different world in a different level of freedom.

MATIAS: And actually, what happened in 2020 and 2021 is amazing for us to rethink what freedom is, because we got used to being free around the world. Like, “Oh, that's it.” This is the best thing. You can go everywhere. But actually it was not the goal. We have to go beyond that freedom of traveling around. And that's why the planet blocked us again and locked us. Like we are now able to rethink how we really want to be free in this world.

AUBREY: So, almost the confinement created this intensification of the desire for freedom. Just like when I went into the darkness for six days, there was this unbelievable intensification of desire for light to see

MATIAS: So we tend to normalize some things that we have, that they are not normal and stop us from evolution. So the moment when we evolve is when we are being forbidden to do so. So when something outside is blocking our natural movement, in order for us to change the movement, to know that, Oh my God, I cannot move like this anymore. So I have to rethink the way I will move throughout the world for my life. And what was happening these past years, you can see it as the darkness trying to avoid, for us to be free, or you can think, Oh, thank you darkness for having avoided me this time to be free because now I can rethink what freedom is. So I now have a better understanding of what is the freedom that I am willing to live.

AUBREY: And for many of us who didn't really have something like that we really wanted to fight for. Like this is a deep core desire that we have. Like, I want to stand for something. I want to fight for something meaningful. It's built into our DNA in a way. Like we want to have a deep purpose. We want to be needed. We want to stand for something. And now there's an opportunity for those who wish to stand. And everybody doesn't have to stand for exactly the same thing, but all of this pressure is then causing us, it's awakening this kind of the hero and the warrior inside of us. It's like, no, no more like this is enough. And there's something beautiful about that too. Like, that's almost like, in some ways, if you can look at that, like, wow, it's a gift that I get to live at a time where I can stand for something meaningful, and when my actions could have cosmic significance. And so it's just a beautiful way to reframe and bring yourself back into gratitude, which is then bringing yourself into an invitation for the whole world to get back into gratitude. 

MATIAS: Yes, this is the time to invite the whole world to do something different and we have to start it. We have to do stuff in order to show different options and there will always be new options for the ones that we offer. Also we have to set ourselves free from our options. Like, we are offering this now for all of us to change into something greater, but something greater will come once I leave. And this is part of evolution. This is part of what we are trying to do. To keep the harmony going throughout time and space and not to block it with ideas, with concepts. 

AUBREY: This was something that we talked about, at the dinner table, we talked about how everybody looks at this constant opposition between the dark and the light, the good and the bad. And you explained polarity in an interesting way and which was, actually, if you want to explain polarity and then I'll get to where I was going and we'll try to recreate a bit of that conversation. 

MATIAS: Polarity and duality? 

AUBREY: Polarity and duality, yeah. 

MATIAS: Yeah, the different concepts of polarity. When we hear about polarity, we usually tend to compare it with duality, which is a totally different thing. Polarity comes from polos, which in Greek language means stick. So, it's only one thing with two sides. Okay, but these two sides are only conceptual. You are the one that says that there are two sides to that thing. 

AUBREY: The top of the stick and the bottom of the stick. 

MATIAS: Exactly, yeah. So we believe that. We put the bottom and the top, but actually it's just a stick. So it doesn't have any difference. It doesn't have a positive or negative. It's just a stick. So we immediately, because our mind was created in order to understand the parts of the things. So we could survive in a 3D world. We tend to divide stuff to understand the parts. If we wouldn't be able to do that, if you see a snake on the floor, You have no clue where to take the snake. If you don't understand what is the head? What is the tail you can die? So,we have decided to understand the difference.

AUBREY: I grabbed the snake. Well, where? It's important. 

MATIAS: Yeah, it's important. So, that's why in our mind everything that is only one thing we divided in parts, but actually, polos or a pole is the same thing. So we have the North Pole, South Pole, but actually it’s only one thing that has magnetical discharges. So it's only one thing. That's it. But we create an idea that has two sides. So polarity actually is not two things, it's only one that is constantly bending itself to the center. That's polarity. Duality is the concept that we have from it, the concept of north, south, up, below. So duality is an idea of something that is only one. The universe is universe, it’s one thing. But we conceptualize the universe in two, which is D in Latin, so from “uni-verse” to “diverse.” So, universe is only one, diverse is two parts of the one, and that's how you have diversity. Diversity is all the different options of the one, but actually, duality is only concepts, it's only in the mind, it's not something real, so when you are talking about darkness or light, the universe only sees a wave of vibration that is moved in different frequencies. So, when you have a frequency going down, well, in the wave of the vibration going down, you call it blank or nothing or void, black, whatever. And when it's going down, you see the positive aspect, what is going up. So you see the light or the clarity or whatever. So in order for the universe to have balance, you have to have black, white, black, white, black, white, something like this. So it's the same of saying– 

AUBREY: Up, down, high, low. 

MATIAS: 1, 0, 1, 0  and it's the same thing in numbers. So when you start to have different frequencies, you can have minus one, minus two, two, three, minus three, and you can have different options of it according to the frequencies vibrating. So you can have much more darkness or much more light, but it's just your perception of polarity that creates the idea of duality that says, Oh, if darkness is here and light is here, they're opposite and they fight each other. They are so different from one another that you see it separate, but actually it's the same frequency moving. So, in the idea of polarity in the universe, polarity allows movement. That's why light and dark are exactly the same in different resonances. From our point of view are two different things, one pulling down, the other one pulling up. 

AUBREY: There's a great quote I heard that said, “darkness is just light so pure that we cannot perceive it.” And that's again, collapsing this idea of polarity. And this is like an important aspect of the mystical traditions, but the important thing of where we're going here is ultimately these forces that we think are in opposition to each other are really actually just as the forces. Now, we're going to talk about the unconscious distortion that actually can accelerate things out of balance, ultimately. But the forces of darkness and light call them are actually just trying to create movement and harmony and both want the same thing, movement and harmony. The dark and the light just want movement and harmony.

MATIAS: Trying to find balance. 

AUBREY: Trying to find balance. And so the challenge comes when we lose sight of that and we create all of our stories built around polarity and duality. And then in our unconscious storymaking, we accelerate something, which is what we were talking about earlier. We're accelerating this natural process of heating and freezing by our unconscious behavior, our disconnection from the earth, our disconnection from each other. We're actually moving ourselves into a steeper curve. Ultimately there's going to be balance anyways, because that's the way the universe works, but we're accelerating ourselves into a steeper, sharper, more jagged wave pattern where we don't need to do that. Ideally, we'd be like, all right, gentle, gentle, gentle. Now, gentle now, child. Like easy. 

MATIAS: Yeah, as deeper you go, or faster you go into the darkness, the faster you go to the light, but in the same rhythm, you go to the darkness again. So that's why the universe tries to find balance. And the light is trying to find the balance, pulling the darkness towards the light. And the dark is trying to find balance, pulling the light towards the darkness. And which is actually positive-negative. And that's what it's all about. But in the distortion, the diversity, we cannot find the origin or the purpose, the real purpose of the other one. So for the dark ones, the light is the enemy. For the light ones, the dark is the enemy because the two forces are pulling one another, but in the middle is the divine that says, I don't care. I'm everything. So for me, it's all about experience. And I read once a comment, asking me, is there conflict also for the universe? And for me, it was like, we are the universe. So it's not that there is something outside called the universe or God or something that doesn't have conflict and we have it, or doesn't the universe exist, the suffering and say, “of course, the suffering is part of the universe.” 

AUBREY: Cause we're part of the universe. 

MATIAS: We are part of the universe. And sometimes we have these kinds of ideas that, because we are humans or because we are lost, we create these conflicts or these wars and actually it happens in the entire universe in different levels of existence and of energy, of consciousness. And when you have a balanced conflict, it's a challenge, that we all love challenges, because it makes us feel complete, it improves ourselves, who we are. 

AUBREY: Yeah. I mean, I've had a friend out here and I was really expecting good evenly matched challenges and it just never really came to fruition that way. I was still really dominant in the expression, but I want to–

MATIAS: I picture a different thing. I’m sorry.

AUBREY: I want to give him a chance though. I feel like he's got a chance, but of course this is of course an aspect of me. I love talking shit. I love the joking. I love the fun of this thing because I love actually that moment of being evenly matched, and like having something where you just go for it. Like it's one of the joys. But we'll lose sight of this, like, wow, alright, like here we are, like, we've got something, we've got something to push up against, we've got something that'll meet us, and we can push. 

MATIAS: Yes, and that's in our nature, in the universe, nature, actually. So it's a good part of this, you need this conflict. Otherwise you are not moving anywhere. The problem is distortion. When you get distorted, you start a conflict and fighting and hitting the other ones because you have no clue why you have this conflict. Which was a challenge for yourself to improve yourself. So you start to believe that the other one is the enemy and this kind of thing or the conflict. And if we balance the distortion and we start to understand how the system works, you start to find pleasure in the challenges and not suffering in the conflict. And it's the same. It's again, it's a stick. But you have divided it into two things, but actually it's the same. 

AUBREY: So like this idea of like, just absolutely joyful, like the joyful resistance. Like, I think we've lost this. Like there's a peaceful protest. But what about like, joyful resistance, like this thing of, oh, okay, there's people trying to restrict our freedom and control us and dampen our joy. And what about our resistance being an act of joy, like being a celebration, right? Like I think of matrix three. Where like, they have that huge party, like a rave in Zion when the machines are burrowing down and it's their final days, like their act of resistance, and Morpheus gives that great speech, like, let the world know what it's like to be human. Like live in this joyful resistance. And that to me feels like a rallying cry. The other way it may be necessary and it may be something that we want to do, but let's not forget, like the greatest act of resistance is to be the opposite reality, be the alternate reality, be in joyful, loving community and stand also in that way and see that it seems– 

MATIAS: Sorry, but that's why I didn't understand why vegans are so hungry all the time. Because they are supposed to be loved and they actually are fighting people and that's not how you bring people to love. And this is what I didn't understand about how a philosophy that should bring you joy actually brings you more suffering than joy. And this applies for everything. But I guess that, I usually have said that, for example, veganism is something that we are going to. That our human tradition, our human culture eventually will become vegan. But I don't know why most of the vegans are fighting against the old system instead of seeing that you are already becoming the new. So you have to invite people through love, not through fighting and Joe showing the joy of it instead of making you be like the evil part of society, because, with your light, you're burning others. 

AUBREY: With your light, you're burning others. 

MATIAS: Yes. So, I guess that it is important for everyone to, that is trying to make a change, to understand that you attract the reality that you are resounding with. And most of the people want to be happy. So if you want for people to be happy and joyful, the revolution that you are doing must be joyful and happy. Otherwise you're not attracting that, you're attracting the opposite. You don't make others love beings by hating them. That's not how it works.

AUBREY: Well, we've certainly been trying. I want to give a shout out to, we have a friend, her name's Carly and she's a vegan and she watches our cats when we go away and she's one of the most loving beings that I've encountered, just full of love and laughter and light and you go into a house when we go visit our cats and there's just plants growing everywhere thriving, like thriving in a way that's like, God, these plants are fucking happy. Like everything in there is like, wow, I just stepped into another world where humans and plants are in perfect harmony together. And it's a downtown condo and it's like, “Whoa!” And it doesn't make me want to go vegan yet, but nonetheless, it's like, it is the most attractive, I feel great. It feels great. Her energy feels great. And it feels like, wow, and that's the best invitation possible. For like, this is a cool thing. 

MATIAS: Yeah, naturally. 

AUBREY: Yeah, naturally. 

MATIAS: Naturally, your cells start to feel comfortable with it. So it's a process. And it will be a natural process. We are heading to that. But again, it's like forcing people in the middle ages to, I don't know, do something that we usually do now, like taking holidays. Like, what is a holiday? In the middle ages, you didn't have holidays, you had to work. Otherwise you die, or kill the others if they take your place

AUBREY: Just being a capricorn all day.

MATIAS: Yeah. Moon looking Capricorn all the time. Yes. So that's how the Middle Ages are. So, what you have to understand is that this is a whole process and you have to be loving and caring for the people that are in the middle of the process. It's like if you have gone through a trauma, you don't say the person one hour after, well, it's okay now, that's it. So you can do a different whole life. No, you have to process that. You need the time to assimilate in yourselves. And so on. So what as much loving and caring you are during the process of transition, the best the cells will adapt to the new reality. And that's why we don't have to push humanity to transform into what we see already is coming because if you do that, you put humanity against, because the immunological system of the unconscious reality tries to survive. So when something attacks from outside and say, this is wrong, the whole system does closes, shut down the system and it's worst, but if you are soft, tender, and you don't do much harm to the actual system, you become like a virus changing the DNA inside and the whole system will change eventually.

AUBREY: Yeah, and I think one of the big elements of my path has been psychedelic medicine, 23 years now, I guess, and there's this idea and people would always say, why are you doing it again? Like this idea that people have, like, you just do it and then you're changed forever. Like, that's it.

MATIAS: Oh, you got enlightened, that’s it.

AUBREY: We think of ourselves like computers, like you get to download an app and the app stays. But we're different, we're a living, breathing organism. 

MATIAS: You need to upload. 

AUBREY: Yeah, constant ways to reconnect, like continue to wash ourselves with different levels of consciousness, and then create a field around us that supports that. And a lot of people, there's so much focus on integration, and I think that's good advice, integration is bringing that energy from your experience into your own regular life. But the idea that you're going to be able to do that without creating a field around you that supports what you've kind of accessed, it's going to be very difficult. Like we're meant to do this together in a community. And I think, we've been here for a week with a lot of amazing people, yourself included, and experiencing different ceremonies and different rituals and just talking and all of this. And we could probably point to these special peak moments that we've had the breath work with Lucas and Hella or whatever these peak moments, but really a lot of what's been happening for ourselves. It's just living together, just being around each other and like a big part of the ceremony is that experience itself. It's a big part of what we do at Fit for Service. It's just creating this cohesive group of people who are open and accepting and loving and forgiving and all of these different ways. I mean, of course we're all people and we all have our own shadows and shit. I'm not saying everybody's perfect, but nonetheless, that's the spirit. That's the spirit of what's provided and that in and of itself more than the talks or more than the breathworks or the ecstatic dances or anything else, which are, of course, peak moments, but it's the container that can hold the transition and accelerate it, and that seems to be also another really key aspect to bringing about the place that we're desiring.

MATIAS: Yeah, that's why you cannot expect for something to happen in the humanity in one day that changes everything because you need to hold that by being connected, by being there for one another because as I said, it's a wave and in the next going down, we all are going to be there to hold each other. And so if we expect for everything to stay still when we reach a point of awareness, that's not life. That's death. So life needs–

AUBREY: Yeah, stillness is death. 

MATIAS: Yeah, so you need the movement and as many people get together to hold, to sustain the others when they go down the process starts to be more soft, more harmonious than if we all just say, “Oh, that was good. We all are connected. So bye.” And that's it. So when a whole network of people acknowledge that we are all trying to keep this harmony ongoing and not just disconnected from one another because we thought we got it, as much more people, even if they don't understand, can accompany each one in that process. So we will complete the harmony. So the conflicts become challenges and the good peaks of light or enlightenment becomes this awareness of the next step. 

AUBREY: Yeah. I have a question about, so there's a guy named Rupert Sheldrake and he had this idea of the morphic resonance field or the morphogenic field. And it's this idea that if some adaptation or some level of consciousness or beliefs or emotional acts or whatever, something, an idea, is accessed by an individual then there's also like almost like a record of it in the morphogenic field and even if you don't contact another person directly, they now have access to that thing. Is this a way that you look at the world as well? Like there's this thing like a morphogenic field or a collective. So even if, let's say all of us here in this group, if we never talked to anybody or showed anybody, like somehow, what we experienced this week could create a copy in some way into the morphic resonance field and other little groups and families would be able to kind of download and access that.

MATIAS: Yeah, of course. That's the whole point of network. That's the whole point of the matrix, for everything that we do to be recorded and in service for the others, because everything is connected and we are just projections from one another. But the thing is that, usually will affect those people that know you because they have a link with you much more directly because they feel you, they have love for you or something.

AUBREY: It's a lot stronger, obviously, when they know you, but it has an effect even if they don't.

MATIAS: Yeah. It's like a wave. Like when you throw a stone in the lake, the most affected ones will be the closer ones to the actual fact. And then the wave will reach the shores, but it will be very soft. So it will affect everyone, but mostly to those who know you. So as much more people know you, whatever you do will affect a much bigger space. And so that was much easier, 2 to 5,000 years ago. Because there were not such a huge amount of people. So kind of everyone knew each other. So because everyone was cousins or siblings. So it doesn't matter what someone did. Everyone kind of knew what was happening. So that's why the time of the prophets, for example, was so important because just two or three facts of those people would reach the entire country, very easily. And that's why today those people are still so important to us. If they would have podcasts today, if St. Peter would have a podcast, I bet nobody would follow him. He was not a good guy. So it was because a lot of people knew him. And a lot of people, I mean, maybe a thousand. So this thousand people had 10,000 kids and these 10,000 kids had a million and so on. So they were produced so fast. And we ended up being asked that their effect on us has been much bigger than the one that we can do now being like 8 million. How would you say it in English? I don't know. A lot of people. As bigger is the amount of people that know you or have an idea of you, the biggest is the impact of anything that you do, even inside your home, 

AUBREY: It's something that Charles Eisenstein, who we got to spend some time with, which was great, something that he says is that. And it's in our video gathering of the tribe that to recognize that each one of our acts has cosmic significance and I think it's a really beautiful sentiment and to understand that you understand that let's say just one time you do something like really kind of nobly heroic for you or your partner or in some way. And maybe not even nobly heroic, but just like something really kind or genuine or sweet or like caring for somebody sick and you go make them actual soup, like with the bones and with the things and make them actual homemade soup instead of just going to soup peddler and bringing them some, but like really do something, and then give that to them. And then of course the direct impact of that is felt by that person and by that family. And so it creates a strong ripple from what actually happened. But also like, remember too, that not only is it the strong ripple, but it's the ripple that you sent up to the collective as well. So, that becomes even easier for all of us to access as our mind expands from the thin membrane that encloses what we think we are and blows open to the permeable membrane that's connected to all of the morphogenic field. And to know all of these little things that we do, even the forgivenesses we have in our own heart for a parent that's passed away or an ex that we don't talk to anymore. Like that forgiveness in us, it has cosmic significance. Just some little ripple is being made. So it matters. 

MATIAS: Yeah, everything. Because it's part of the system. So any movement can create. A whole difference in the entire universe, because for the universe, there's no distance, no space, actually. So, anything that you do, any movement, any word, any act that you do is in the center of the universe. So you don't have to do great things in order to change stuff. You have to just do it. And that moves everything. Sometimes we expect for it to be greater because we are born with hero stories that are recognized. So we take importance to the tiny things that we do daily because we say, “Oh, we have to do great things in order to change great things.” But actually, even if you have all these movies that tell stories of heroic stuff like Marvel or this kind of thing, if you take a better look into the movies now, they all go to the traumas. And to the tiny things that really changed everything before it was all about who was a stronger one, blah, blah, who saved the day. But today, when you go into the actual thing, now you see the superheroes crying, breaking down telling the stories of their childhood. 

AUBREY: Those little moments of heroism on the inside.

MATIAS: The little moments, the little stuff that changed everything. And that's something that is in the collective mind now that gives the power to everyone and not just the hero. That's why also now we have so many movies of the evil ones, and now you start to love them because you say, “Oh, now I understand why you're evil.”

AUBREY: Yeah, you see the compassion and the little choices that were made. 

MATIAS: Exactly. So that's why every little thing that we do can become a great thing. And I think that the environment is trying to show us that today but we are still used to the old picture. So we just have to become aware of it, but it's already there.

AUBREY: That humanizing, the humanizing of all people is super important because and I think we've started to see this in the movie even, I think, no movie did that better than the movie Joker. Where it's like really humanized this super villain and got you to understand the trauma and the forces that created it. So instead of just dehumanizing, which is what every different country that's ever been at war has done and what we did to our own people on both sides. These people over here didn't believe or believe the vaccine there, they were sheep, right? So that's dehumanizing. And then these other people, over here who didn't, they were domestic terrorists or whatever other name that was lobbed on them, right? So, but it was this act of dehumanization rather than being like, okay, like let's get into the real personhood. Let's radically rehumanize everyone. And that's the way, not this dehumanization, because in that resistance, people are just going to double down on their stance because they're being attacked.

MATIAS: Yep. 

AUBREY: Now, and that's not going to actually change anything. 

MATIAS: Never. The immune system will defend until death. 

AUBREY: Yeah. That's what it does. Matias, my brother, we're going to do another one of these and I want to talk about some magic. I want to talk about some things that blow people's perceptions of what is possible in our reality out of the picture. And maybe we'll talk about aliens or other things, but I just want to say, like, I really deeply appreciate this conversation and all the conversations we've had, because it puts into context, because of your context and your history and having seen other systems make these same mistakes and make these follies and do these play all of these stories out. Now that history can be brought back through your wisdom embodied. We didn't even tell a bunch of stories, but the wisdom that you carry comes from remembering yourself and the history and the collective. And it just really gives a clear kind of path forward and an understanding of how we can be a part of this next phase of the planet in our own evolution. So, thank you so much, brother. 

MATIAS: I'm glad it's useful. Otherwise, it's just schizophrenia

AUBREY: Indeed. Thank you so much everybody. I'll see you soon.