What would it be like if Leonardo Da Vinci got to talk with someone who remembered the whole sacred history of the cosmos? This. Always looking for clues and patterns to help decipher the Mystery, polymath Robert Edward Grant joins the human memory bank Matias De Stefano who is best known as someone who remembers all of his past lives and everything that happened in between. 

We have clues that have been left for us from ancient civilizations about how to navigate these wartorn waters, in a different way through remembering who we are and learn from the mistakes made by ancient advanced civilizations. If we are able to restore our own wholeness by decoding these clues, and understanding the matrix, we will be able to follow initiatic paths that can serve humanity on an individual and collective level. 

We also decode and retranslate the myth of the Philosopher’s Stone, one of the most mysterious and important guiding stories of our time. This drives us into discussions about Arthurian legend, twin flames, our original trauma, and the importance of Divine Play. 

I hope you all enjoy this once in a lifetime special conversation and check out more of both Mathias & Robert’s work at www.matiasdestefano.org⁠ and www.robertedwardgrant.com.

AUBREY: Matias, Robert, it's great to have you both here. This is one of the most challenging, painful and complicated times that I think most of us have experienced in our lives. Now, there's some of our elders who've also experienced incredibly impossible and complicated times. There was something that Jamie Weil said. He said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." And, where I wanted to start this podcast was to go to your body of wisdom, Matias, from the stories that you remember from the lives, the many lives that you've had, but particularly your life in Khem, post-Atlantean fall, and the flood, and all of that, that came. And, just talk to you about how this is and isn't an echo of deep history, the history of the fall of that civilization, and what is similar, and what is different, and how we can learn from what happened in the past, and then use that wisdom and knowledge to help guide us through this. And, what's different about this time? How the outcome could yield something different. And then, of course, part of the great joy of this podcast, if we permit ourselves to be in a state of joy, when the world is suffering as much as it is but that's also I think, important to be able to allow ourselves to have full access to laughter, and even through the worst of it. It's what helps keep us sane in these times. So, and be able to allow you guys to cross your bodies of wisdom. I know you've had a lot of private conversations, but to share this conversation publicly, and see where your own wisdom lines have crossed, and what you guys think about the time we're in, and the clues that have been left for us through the old civilizations about how to navigate these times, and how to move through in a different way than we did before. So, if I was going to go to you, Matias, in what ways is this an echo of something that happened in the past?
MATIAS: Well, basically, everything in reality is just an echo, because everything was created by waves. So, the waves of expansion in the universe creates that everything has a rhythm, and everything has a frequency. So, frequency is related to time. How many times repeats the same vibration. And, in which synthony is repeated. So, there are different synthony which is the speed of that frequency. Could be shorter, could be longer, but it means that eventually, it will be like a wave. So, we can relate that with something simple, which is the tides in the ocean by the movement of the moon. So, the waves that we see in the ocean are constantly, because there is a force of gravity that is moving waves not only here in the sea, but also in the moon, in the sun, in the galaxy, in the microcosmos, and the macrocosmos. So, that means that all reality is just a wave that is a constant and repetition that has patterns through frequency and vibration, which means that we are not outside of that system. We are a repetition of everything that has been happening, but in different synthonies.
AUBREY: What's a synthony?
MATIAS: So, a synthony means that, for example, if you have only one vibration that has only one rhythm or one frequency, like “tug tug tug”. It will repeat constantly unless there is something that is a different frequency, like “tutug tutug tutug”. So, when these “tug tug” collapse with “tutug tutug” it creates a melody or something different.
AUBREY: So, you're saying symphony?
MATIAS: Huh?
AUBREY: Are you saying symphony?
MATIAS: No, synthony. Like synthonizing something. It's like a tuning, tuning of something.
ROBERT: A synthesis.
MATIAS: Yeah. So, when they collapse, they start to create a new one. So, it creates a new option. That's how basically we create new particles and new options, new options, new options. And, this happens as an echo, this happens when we meet people, or when we create a new culture, or a new faith or a new emotion. So, it's a new synthony that creates a new symphony, let's say, for everything. So, we are changing the options on how that waves are moving through. Like, bigger tides, lower tides, or currents, or just everything still. So, because of the collapse of different frequencies, we create all these options. But they all come from the very first idea, which is, everything repeats in waves through frequency. So, this means that every repetition won't be exactly the same. It will have an idea of it, but it won't be exactly the same. So, for example, there is repetition through the procession of equinoxes, that every certain amount of time, things will happen kind of the same. But because there have been different movements and experiences, so, whatever is going to repeat will be in a different tuning. So, 12,000 years ago, which is a big wave for us, Atlantis was happening. And during that time we had the last period of anglicization. So, anglicization was ending. It started to heat up and flood the planet. So today, we also live in a heating process of the planet and weather and weather change like we lived in that moment. And, during that process, we started to get into conflict throughout the entire world, like what is going to happen, what should we do, and these kinds of things related to the planetary vision. And that's something that is repeating again. So, those conflicts are an echo. But, this echo is different, because the frequency that we had in that time was related to Virgo era going into Leo era. Now it's Pisces going to Aquarius. So it's very different in the structure of these waves, because in the Virgo era, civilization was like a mother. This mother told us what to do. Like, this is how you should do it, this is how it's properly done. But we were going to Leo, which is a wave of power, of self-empowerment, saying, "No, I will do it as I want to do it." So, that created the separation of the kingdoms. Now we are in Pisces which is all about ideas. I think that peace means this for me, or I think that we should go to God in this way. So, it's the conflict of ideas. Which idea is the ruler? And we are going to Aquarius, which is I don't care about your ideas. I just want to be myself, I want to be weird, I want to do it in my own way. So, we are going to that different situation. That's why today we have a very big difference from what was happening 12,000 years ago, which is a lot of information, a lot of opinions, each one of them, each one of us willing to say something from our own point of view, and we have an excess of information. So, it's more Aquarian time. Today we have social media and that's the only bigger difference that we have from the wave 12,000 years ago. 12,000 years ago, you couldn't post anything. So, today, it's more about individuality and what each individual–
AUBREY: They have to put a sign on your donkey, and ride it around town. That would be a social media post.
MATIAS: Exactly, yeah, like trying to scream from above a tower or something. So, what is happening today in the world is not the first time that happens. But it's the first time that happens with everyone being aware of what is happening. So, if we are 8 billion people in the world, now the 8 billion people know what is happening.
AUBREY: Or at least they're trying to know what's happened.
MATIAS: Yeah, but we have informers everywhere, all the time. Before, it was what the priest said. So, we kind of trust because we were in tune. But, I think that when we talk about these times are chaotic, we should remember what happened in other times. Like, in other times, it was terrible. We almost got extinct in other moments. Everything was destroyed. Just 70 years ago, many, many horrible things happened in the world. So, it's not the first time. We always overcome that because of the cycles. We overcome the cycles, because it's a wave. We go down, then go up. So it's natural. The thing is, how can we find harmony in that process, so we don't just crush one another? So it's not about we are facing terrible times. But those terrible times are just echoes of very terrible times that already happened, and we are here. So I'm not concerned about what is going to happen. I'm concerned about how we are gonna deal with it? If it's going to be from duality, or from harmony.
AUBREY: It also seems like there's almost a regressive movement, instead of the creation of unification through the celebration and the context of diversity of all of these diverse opinions in many different ways. There's also forces that seem to say, we have the one way, it's going to be one world government, it's going to start in 2030, we know all the answers, and we're willing to cajole, control, manipulate, enforce our way upon the whole world, which is regressive. This is not the way to handle this new cycle. That's an old play from an old playbook that ultimately failed, and would fail again. So, this is the struggle to this regressive solution versus a progressive solution, about how we deal with these next challenges that are going to come.
MATIAS: I think that when we try to set ourselves free, thinking that someone is trying to make us slaves, we are creating someone that will make us slaves.
ROBERT: I fully agree with that.
MATIAS: So, that's why I believe that one of the most important things that we can do is try to avoid the idea of, in 2030, someone will start a new world order, and try to fight them back. I think that what we will have to do is to enforce the idea of inner freedom, more than someone will control us in the future. Because we are creating that option when we think about that. I'd rather push the idea of, we have to learn how to feel free within. So, in a few years, when someone tries to control us, we already know, within, what it means to be free.
AUBREY: World control. When you said, "I totally agree with that," what resonated in you, Robert, when Matias was sharing that?
ROBERT: Well, I mean, I think Richard Wright says that awakening is a series of softenings. Richard Wright is the author of "Gene Keys", you probably know him. A series of softenings that turn pain into purpose. The reason I think that's such a profound statement is because we can go through life thinking life is just happening to us. But actually, when we really look at life, life doesn't just happen to us, right? The things that happen to us are really the things we perceive happened to us. It's not actually what happened to us, per se. Other people could perceive it differently, how we experienced our life. And when we realize that, then we start to truly awaken through this series of softenings to recognize that I am not just an actor, or a dancer dancing to someone's music. I'm actually the DJ, or the producer. I'm also the writer, the script writer. I'm that director as well. We have a lot more control over our minds and our lives as our experiences than what we recognize. And as a result, I think what Matias is saying is actually right, it's absolutely correct, which is, if you believe yourself to be a victim, you will consistently experience victimhood. If you believe yourself to be a slave, you'll consistently feel as if you're a slave, and that feeling will attract the slavery into your life as well. So, the best thing to do is to break out of that cycle, and start to think and embody and feel as if you're the opposite of that thing. That's what Hermes and Thoth talk about in the Emerald Tablets about raising your vibration, and focusing on the things that you want as the outcomes rather than things that you're afraid that if you don't do something will happen and occur. People that want to lose weight will often put a picture of themselves thin on their refrigerator door. That works a lot better, studies have shown, than actually worrying that I'm going to get fat. If you worry you're going to get fat, you're probably going to get fatter, right? It's the nature of the Hawthorne effect. This is a measured consequence, it's seen scientifically all the time. What gets measured gets done, because it changes our expectations. In life, we don't necessarily get what we deserve, we generally will get what we expected. Whatever was more powerful in that consequence of our conscious mind or subconscious mind, whatever took over more effort of focus and attention is what will become our outcomes. And, I fundamentally believe that. And then, I just want to add also to what Matias was saying earlier. We look at the precession of Equinox. I see it also, I understand the concept of the echo, but I see it also as reflection and absorption. So, light and darkness. So, I can't remember what your zodiac sign is.
AUBREY: Pisces.
ROBERT: Pisces, okay. So, your opposite sign is going to be related to your shadow, whether you realize this or not. My opposite sign is related to my shadow as well. What is my shadow? My shadow is all the things that I have denied in my conscious mind, so I can't see it in myself. So, my shadow was Scorpio, I'm Taurus. So, all the things related to Taurus, I've sort of avoided in my life. And, then all the aspects that I didn't want to ascribe to. Because through an accumulation of moments that I felt shame or moments that I didn't feel like I fit in, or whatever, I started to separate myself from the feelings that then became the consequence of my unconscious side of myself. That separation from my feelings, my inner feelings, that inner world creates an outer world around me that I call this U inverse concept. Well, it's not only true for us as individuals. This also becomes true for Myers Briggs types of analysis, you've probably heard of the Myers Briggs analysis. I've tested as INTJ and ENTJ, and ENTP. As you go throughout life, you can change many times. I mean, these things actually can evolve. But, one point that I think is really important to note is that collective societies go through this as well. And so do moments in time. So the precession of Equinox is a great example of this. What we were talking about earlier was the shift at 12,000 years ago, where 12,000 years ago, we would have been in the Leo constellation in the precession of Equinox. Its opposite sign is Aquarius. So, therefore, all of the things that show up for Leo would have been really resilient. So that means there would have been a lot of gold around because gold is seen as sort of Leo. That's why we're also seeing a resurgence in gold right now. Because all the trends and everything started shifting. 30 years ago, yellow gold wasn't so popular. Now it's becoming kind of popular again. Why is this? It's because part of it is this undercurrent of this collective shadow that we have. When you start to recognize these aspects, you can start to go back through time and say, okay, what was the last period? So, we were in Pisces. Pisces is a spiritual wisdom teacher. So you found your exact right path, right? As long as it would match up with your north node. Do you know your north node?
AUBREY: No, not a big astrology guy.
ROBERT: It's worth learning this. It's really worth learning it. Because I wasn't either. I'm Pisces north node. And I was Virgo in my south node which means that I was in this judgment life, going to be a business guy, going to be successful, all this stuff, and mother's going to tell me what to do and this is how it's going to be. And then I go into Pisces and now I find myself in a role as kind of teaching esoteric wisdom, which I never thought I would be doing. But it's exactly in line with what my north Node suggested it was supposed to be. So, when you look at it in this context, look at it from a collective perspective, the last 2000 years has been the Piscean era. So what has been the shadow of Pisces? Shadow of Pisces is Virgo, the virgin. Is there any wonder then why we've had for the last 2000 years, this veneration for virginity--
AUBREY: And this obsession with "purity" and this classification of what is pure and what is impure, which comes--
MATIAS: And world order.
ROBERT: That's right, and a world order that comes from this, the worship of the Virgin Mary, the concepts of virgin birth. And then this then leading to the separation between the two fish swimming opposite directions tied together by a rope, which is what Pisces is. You can say that's also the separation of science and spirituality as well. There's so many aspects that you can basically tie to this. But then if we go back even another 2000 years before that, what was it before that period of time? So, the period before that was actually Aries. So, you can go back in history, look at the Bible. When Moses was around, that would have been the period of Aries. And so, what do they keep talking about? During Passover, Pesach, put lamb's blood on the door, right? The blood of the lamb will save you, because it was all about the ram, or the lamb, the Lamb of God. And then Jesus comes along there in the Piscean era, and he says, no, no, I shall make you fishermen of men. So, it's all about Pisces at that stage. So, when you say echo, I see absorption reflection, I see shadow, I see conscious, I see unconscious, I see collective unconscious. And what we're experiencing right now is the same collective unconscious, that would have been the opposite mirror reflection of 12,000 years ago. So that's why it resonates deeply for me. What we're facing, what we're dealing with right now is actually bringing some resolution to what occurred 12,000 years ago.
AUBREY: So, as you're speaking, there's a couple of things that come to mind. One is, total agreement and alignment. I was first introduced to any spiritual knowledge system through the Toltec beliefs that were Don Juan's beliefs as passed through Castaneda, and they said that there's basically two different types of people. There's the Naguals, who are the artists who paint the masterpiece of their own life, who use the power of their own intent, all of these beliefs and everything that you're saying. So, there's the Naguals, then there's the Tonals, who just allow themselves to be victims to life's circumstances. "I can't believe this happened, I can't believe this happened." They don't take ownership and power of their own intent. And so, full resonance there, I still believe that to be true. And, then there's also, I think, a very painful and also not entirely true interpretation of this, which is, everything that happens to you is always your fault. So, all of those people who were at the music festival in Israel, well, they did something that caused them to get attacked and them to get kidnapped and all of the horrible things. Well, that doesn't make sense entirely either. Because other people have free will and free will that can actually impinge upon you and that you can actually be a victim. It didn't happen to you for a reason. This isn't your karma. You weren't somebody who slayed somebody else in a past life and therefore you're slayed. There are patterns and systems, that are... And I'd like to actually go into that more. But it also doesn't make sense to me to say to every victim, every victim of a rape, every victim of a murder, like oh, well, you called that in on your own life. So both are true, and this is not necessarily a contradiction, but a paradox about the world.
MATIAS: I think that sometimes when we talk about these statements of spirituality, like you are the creator of your own reality, we sometimes misinterpret that in a very linear, linear way. For example, the law of karma, like people say, oh, this is karma, you've been a bad person in a past life so this is happening now because of that. It's not linear. It depends on so many aspects that we don't even control. We have to think that when we live our lives, and we think, we say something, we produce something, sometimes it's not related at all with what our liver is feeling, or what all our cells, because our cells have been produced for billions of years, living many different experiences, and they carry that experience and that pattern within a whole other different pattern. So, when we talk about a person, like me, myself, I am the creator of my own reality, I suddenly forget that there are billions of other beings that are living within me that have created other realities, and they have been living other realities or creating other paths. So, eventually, they all turn out to become this being that I am here, but there are thousands of forces that are pulling to different directions all the time in our creation of who we are. So, becoming aware that we are the creators of our reality is not that simple as Matias is creating this now. My mind, which is the personality of Matias is trying to lead all these other possibilities that live within me into one direction, even though I am being pulled by thousands of other pulses that I cannot control in the subconscious and the unconscious, that I won't be able to really manage until I become enlightened, when every cell becomes one. So, it's not that linear, like I choose to live this reality or I choose to be killed in a situation like that. Because I have been pushed by many other forces that are creating my reality too. Talking about astrology or astronomy, we can think that nothing in the skies is really manipulating what we are, it's too far away. But even though, every feminine body lives according to the moon, and every emotion is related to the water, and the moon is moving the water. That's something very physical that we can see every day when we go to the sea. So, things that maybe I say, I don't believe that the moon controls me. But even though, the ties won't stop, because you don't believe it. Because there are many other keys that make us remember that we are not who we think we are. Matias is not Matias. Matias is just a product of a spirit that lives through many dimensions, and it's in the moon, in the sun, and in other people. So, when I am living a situation where I consider myself a victim, actually it's myself in different aspects controlling this tiny little aspect of reality. And that's why it's so complex. Even if we try to think I am the creator of my own reality, when I say that, it's not Matias. ‘I am’ is the creator of my own reality.
AUBREY: Yeah, I totally resonate with that. And, also, somebody else who is both creator of their reality, and also subject to forces that they are not conscious enough of to take control over, may actually interfere and affect your reality.
MATIAS: What we were saying about the waves.
AUBREY: So somebody else can choose to do something based upon their own momentum and impulse that could affect you, that is not part of what your essence is calling in, necessarily. It's a part of their story, and that you are somehow a casualty is a part of their story. And that's again, how you explain a bunch of evacuees getting bombed on their way out of Palestine. This is not just one side where there's people who are, they're not calling that in. They weren't calling in somehow, but that bomb came and somebody launched it. Hopefully there was an accident that happened. But either way, whether that was intentional, or whether it was unintentional, there was something that happened that interfered with potentially the story of what the being in its totality was calling in. And so, it's this interesting combination of both, and I think this is where there's humility in facing the mystery. There's a reason why you call the divine, the mystery. Even someone as wise and attuned as yourself, you're always looking for clues and patterns to help decipher the mystery. It's a big part of what you're doing, looking for all the clues.
ROBERT: We did it together.
AUBREY: How do we decipher the mystery? But still humbling ourselves before this is a mystery.
ROBERT: It's very true. People ask me this all the time. I believe that destiny is the free will of the higher self. So, what do I mean by that? There's an aspect of me that I hope to connect with. There's an aspect of me that is the infinite. There's an aspect of me that is the subconscious, the unconscious mind, that every day, I'm trying to find synchronicities to be able to make connections with that higher wisdom. That's the part of me that basically has determined the path that this body, this avatar will take along my journey. And just coming here, I can tell you probably 50 synchronicities if we have the time to do it. That told me that I was supposed to be here right now, right here, without any question about it. And so, I lived my whole life for 50 years plus, not even realizing that all of it was so perfectly ordered, even down to the point. You've seen "The Matrix Revolutions" and probably "Matrix Reloaded" and there's one scene where the Oracle is sitting on a park bench, and she says to Neo, "Neo, sit down, rest your feet." He's like, "No, I'll stand." And then 30 seconds later, he looks around and decides to sit down. And he says, he looks at her, he said, "I decided to sit down." And then he stops, he says, "But you knew I was going to decide that already, didn't you?" And she's like, "Yeah." So, we think that we're making this choice in our lives. But there's an illusion, because there's an illusion of choice. We've created our own separation from our feelings, those things that brought us shame, those things that we did not want to associate with, and that from a very, very young age is what creates this veil of forgetfulness. It's like this mirror of consciousness that then we create a persona out of. Our persona then flourishes and grows. And all the bad things that happened to us, we start to realize, actually can turn from lead into gold. When we start to see the arc of our life, we start finding encryptions, we left ourselves through time. And you can't see this until much later in life. It was Steve Jobs who gave a speech at Stanford University for graduation. He basically said, you can't see how the dots in your life connect until you can see them in retrospect.
AUBREY: And that retrospect may be beyond this lifetime.
ROBERT: Yes.
AUBREY: We have to look at this as a journey of a soul that incarnates in many lifetimes. There's no way that you can have the limited view that there's justice and order in the cosmos, looking from the vantage point and purview of one life, which then doesn't also reify this simplistic law of karma, well, you deserve this. But this is also, we just are unable to grasp the perspective of the divine that is the divine weaver of all things and how incredibly complex that is. But in that understanding, which I'm open to also accepting, I want to ask about your belief is chaos, this feeling that there's just chaos, things are happening randomly by chance, is that just a failure to be able to grasp the highest perspective of the mystery itself? Or is chaos legitimate random number generation? Is that a part of our reality? Is chaos an element? And how deeply does that extend? I mean, you could just be cruising out one day on a walk and a boulder could fall off a hill. That's random. It's just chaos. So, what are both of your opinions about chaos?
ROBERT: I've got a lot on this one, because I make a random number generator. I designed a random number generator. And yet, I don't really fully believe in the concept of randomness. So I'll start with that paradox. Because I believe fundamentally, we've talked about this before, I used to believe in randomness, I used to believe in coincidence. Now, I don't believe in it at all, because I realized that every time I thought it was random, it was simply because I was not able to perceive the encrypted pattern that was around me until I raised my own consciousness to a level to be able to perceive it. That was a huge thing for me. And what I mean by raising my own consciousness, it required me doing a big zoom out to see the bigger picture. And when you start thinking in those terms, like okay, what is the only objective truth? What is objective truth? We're all basically dealing with this right now. Because it seems like there's so many different truths. There's your truth, there's history, there's everybody, how can there be all these different truths? Well, you realize you have 30-people, a crime that would occur, right? And, you've got 30 witnesses, eyewitnesses to the crime. Somehow they go to court, there's 30 different stories, entirely different stories of what occurred. And then you realize, well, maybe the only way to get to the whole truth would be to some, from a mathematical perspective, to add them all up, all of the possible subjective perspectives that could exist on a topic. See, I used to collect facts in my life. I collect fact here, fact here, number this, number that, learn all these things. And then finally, I realized all these facts that I thought I was collecting, like trophies, were actually just facets, it was ‘F-A-C-T”, it was missing the E. Facets of a larger prism. And then I started thinking, well, geez, if God himself or herself is a true philomath, a lover of learning, what would he do or she do but break themselves up into billions and billions of different possible viewpoints and perspectives to gain greater and greater wisdom as a collective Akashic field of information that each one of us serves into. We're basically bringing our own unique conditioning biases, we're bringing our own perspectives, our own experiential learning, bringing our different viewpoints so that the one universal source can actually gain more and more wisdom through our very existence. So, each one of us becomes one part out of 8.3 billion people, we'd be like a gigantic polygon with 8.3 billion sides, that from only one side of that polygon could all of the rest of it be recreated. And all of them be entirely individual and different. I think that's what Matias was talking about earlier when he talks about going into this age of individuality or individuation, and it's very much Carl Jungian in its perspective. But that's my personal viewpoint. I used to really believe in randomness, and I don't really believe in randomness now.
AUBREY: I definitely receive that, and I also think there's a danger to go to a world, this kind of postmodern belief that we're post truth, post goodness, post beauty. I do believe that there are first values and principles of the cosmos that have to aggregate and collect all of these perspectives without which everything is moral equivalency. That if you run up and stab somebody, well, that's your perspective. And if you run up and hug someone, it's just a perspective. These are stories of moral equivalency, and neither one really matters. And there's legitimate schools of thought that will argue that, that it's all just a story, it's all just perspective. But that denies, I think, what we feel in our body, anthro-ontologically, this feeling, this knowing in our body, that stabbing is different than that hug and that lovemaking. So, it's both yes, there's all these different perspectives, and there's also first values and principles that live within the very structure of the cosmos, as well. So, which is again, a paradox that's not a contradiction, but can hold both.
MATIAS: I don't know much about biology or science. But if you try to compare, like a body, a human body and try to explain how perfect it works in a chaotic order. Like every cell, every atom doesn't know that the other cell exists, they don't know how the blood comes from, or how this function, or how this hormone, but it all seems so chaotic, and even though, makes us be alive, and makes us work perfectly. I'm not even thinking of moving my hands, and my brain knows exactly what to do. If you see the brain, it's chaos. It's like... All the time is chaotic. So, there's a perfect, beautiful order in all things that goes beyond our understanding, because the patterns have been so perfect for billions and billions of years. And even before the time was existing, the patterns that exist there are just repeating themselves in different order. So, our human mind tends to solve problems. We have been designed in order to survive. So that's why we say this is the wrong way, or this is the right way. So our pathways in the brain are all the time trying to figure out how to survive. And, because of that, we created a cultural or belief system of this is wrong, this is right, this is wrong, this is chaos, this is order, for us to feel comfortable with that. But every decision of this is chaotic, and this is order, we create a pattern that multiplies constantly. The brain is trying to multiply as many options as possible. And then we choose one of those. It looks like it's random. But actually, it's because it's been for billions of years practicing how to find a perfect pattern between all that. The choices of creating the perfect path creates connectivity, like positive finding negative. There is a moment in all this expansion and perfection of the entire thing that is so complex that looks chaotic, that the reality becomes toxic. It's basically when yourself, picture yourself as an atom, you lose a part of yourself or the inner part of yourself and you give it away to someone else. This is when a proton loses an electron. When a person loses an electron, the proton becomes toxic. So, as more electrons have lost their inner side, their environment becomes toxic. Your body becomes ill, sick, because you are giving away your inner part, your negative side. So, as more individuality without interconnectivity, it looks more chaotic and toxic.
AUBREY: Yeah, the more that we're in separation from, when cells are in separation from the body, they become cancerous. They multiply for their own ethnocentric, you could call it, idea. This glandular cell becomes ethnocentric, only the glandular cells matter and the rest of the body doesn't matter. And this is what we've become through this myth of separation. We've lost our connection to the whole, so in the case of somebody hurting somebody else, they've lost the connection, that who I'm hurting is me living a different life. When cells become cancerous, they've lost the connection. "Oh, I'm a part of this whole body. And if I multiply just for my own sake, looking only at my own species, or structure, or race, or class, or whatever it might be, then actually, the whole system will collapse. So, it's about restoring this understanding of the wholeness and the actual connectedness rather than the separation that we have.
MATIAS: So, as you see, in nature, what looks chaotic is actually what keeps life going. When you put all together in order, like, okay, all the protons here, all the neutrons there, you create disease. So, that's why the idea of separation is born because we try to organize things, in a way that we think it's better to choose. Like, okay, if I choose this side, I'm going to be right. If I choose this side, I'm going to be wrong. So, we say we usually don't like negativity, because we don't want to be negative people and going low, but that's the electron, and the electron is the one that keeps life going. So, we tend to give away our inner side, in order to be part of something outside. And that thing outside, it becomes toxic, because it's only one option. So, in our same biology, all these cares create this order that keeps life going. And every time that we try to organize the things in separate packages for our mind to feel, okay, now I know this, we create toxicity and chaos.
AUBREY: This also points to, I think what you guys have is a shared solution for how we actually move forward in this, which is to start building from the inside out. And this is part of, we were talking before this podcast about the initiatic path that you've explored deeply along the Nile, and you as well and how it relates to the philosopher's stone. So, let's get into that, because we've highlighted some of the challenges and problems and difficulties, and also the necessity to hold paradox as not a contradiction, but a paradox. And then pointing the way towards the solution is pointing back inside and finding the implicit order within ourselves. And then the structures that were created by the ancients to help guide people through this again, going back to the Toltec belief systems, like Teotihuacan was an initiatic path. There was different ways that you would go through different aspects of that civilization, help bring you on--
ROBERT: Walking dead.
AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. The initiatic path to help actually align yourself. And this is found in many different wisdom structures that have existed which maybe came from an original wisdom structure in Atlantean times. And then as it dispersed in this kind of diaspora of different cultures around the world, the same understanding that we all have to go through this initiation in order to bring ourself into wholeness, and to be able to actually restore a greater wholeness for the world.
ROBERT: It's a beautiful path, until you realize that it's a path. In my whole life, I started thinking. You could be in a game, let's say you're in a game, and you don't know it's a game. You're in a simulation, you don't know it's a simulation. That is the definition to me of hell. You don't know what the purpose of the game is, you don't even know how you win the game. So, you just sort of go with what feels good at the moment, or what benefits you. So then you build up all of your ethics around that. You don't even realize that your ethics are just founded upon the principle of what actually benefits you, or benefits the formation of your conscious mind persona. And so you start to get into arguments with people and you can't even see the alternative viewpoint of things, because you're acting in this but you're literally unconscious of the aspect that the whole thing you're arguing for is really just your own benefit. And you can't see it. We've all seen that. We've all experienced moments where we've had terrible, terrible things happen to us. I don't want to judge anybody's life, and say mine was more difficult or theirs was more difficult. Everyone has their own different journey that they have to basically take, and all of us die. At the end, does it really matter how we die as much as it matters how we lived? That, I think, is the most important thing. And what I realized is that so many times, that as I look back on my life, my most difficult circumstances were the ones that had the most profound impact on me in expanding my awareness and consciousness. If I go back to third grade, and fourth grade, and fifth grade, I don't even remember the teachers that were easy. I only remember the teachers that really pushed me hard, and the ones that I was pulling my hair out when I was doing hours and hours of homework, and because they believed and saw something in me that maybe I didn't see in myself, and it pushed me further than I thought I could even take myself. I know, as an athlete, you would have experienced that with great coaches, right? So, often those moments that we think this was the worst thing that ever happened to me, within this time aspect, time has a shift and polarity that comes along with it sometimes and it accompanies it. We can look at those terrible, terrible circumstances, and look back on them and say, "You know what, that was a difficult time. But as I look back on it, in retrospect, it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me, and here's why." And you can start listing off the things as to why that thing that was so horrible, horrifically bad, was actually where you found through your crucible, that moment where you realize who you are, your own I am-ness. To me, that is what this Philosopher's Stone represents. The Philosopher's Stone starts with premium material. We're creating our own separation. It's that base metal, that base something we don't know what it is. And we're somehow going to try to find a way to transmute those experiences, the metaphor of our lives into something of hopefully greatness and significance. And in the process, we hopefully start to wake up to the idea and notion that we're actually in a simulation. We're in a simulation. That the simulation, if we knew that death wasn't real at the end of the day, and I don't want to discount that it's real, that yes it happens physically.
AUBREY: It's real on one dimension.
ROBERT: It's real on one dimension. But, if we absolutely knew without a shadow of a doubt that death wasn't real, I would probably be like, hey, how did I die last time? Okay, maybe this time I want to die making love to the love of my life.
AUBREY: I think I'd say that every time.
ROBERT: You do that maybe 10 times, 20 times, then after a while--
AUBREY: Every time.
ROBERT: Okay, you. And Vylana is right there, so well done, well played. So, I would probably say, "You know what, maybe next time I'll try something different. I'll see what it's like to die being chased by the Sheriff of Nottingham." Or, I want to die in a fiery cataclysm, I want to see what it's like if I jump off of some building, and realize that... I've always heard that it's not the fall, it's the sudden stop. I want to experience all of these things. Because actually, I am living through this infinite life experience, I might as well... And I'm taking this to the nth degree of the macabre, which is, on purpose, I'm sort of extending the metaphor as far as possible. But actually, the principle I believe is still true, which is, if we're here to capture more and more experience, and that the aim of the game is not actually to become better judges, because that's what we all get drawn into. The world wants to pull us into that. We become better and better judges of this or that, or he or she, or black or white, or loud or quiet, or whatever the list of dualities are that we're going to experience, I believe the reason we're here is just to learn how to love and be loved.
AUBREY: I hear that fully and receive it. I think also one aspect to add to this is, that because we are inextricably connected to others in the whole, that some of this choice may be actually, I don't want to die like this. But actually, this collectively yields a new story. So there's those who take on even more onerous and brutal and difficult situations, which again, I still hold that other people can enforce their own will upon others, and that's not even a choice at all. But you can also look at, I think it was Ram Dass who was sharing like the those one’s going through these, these are particularly brave souls, offered themselves up as the sacrificial lambs in some way. Not just for themselves, not just for their own, because again, that's one soul in isolation of the field. But actually for the field, this was necessary for the field to evolve, and there's this deep interconnectivity of the field. Whereas as the participatory in the one, the universe, that we're making choices that are not just of our own self-interest, but making choices of the collective self-interest, of the evolution of life and the love story of the universe.
ROBERT: And that's exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about this initiatory path, because as you go higher and higher you start realizing, "Wait, you're not separate from me." Mankind is going through a shift right now. Its understanding of man to man and woman to women, that the hurt of any man becomes the hurt of every man. That the hurt of any woman becomes the hurt of us all. I believe the purpose for us to be here is to learn to love and how to be loved, and that means that we have to also have deep empathy for all the different pathways that are happening. That people are experiencing that are very real. Last week was a very difficult time for a lot of us. I have never felt in my entire life, the degree of pain. And even though I look back on it now and I say, okay, that helped expand me, it was difficult at the time. I was in Rome by myself watching all the news and just hearing of these terrible situations and atrocities, and then just... It makes you ask existential questions. But I fundamentally believe, I side with humanity. I side with significance. In this life, I'm not choosing to just experience a different way to die. And I hope that many, many other people feel the same way, that we can do something, and there is a collective Philosopher's stone that will play in this aspect. We're returning this base metal into gold. The first principle of hermetic wisdom is mentalism. When we really, truly embody and understand that all things are mental, the mind of the universe is mental, then you start to realize the power that we can have within that context. But it's not just about mental. It's about connecting deeply to the heart, and being able to... There's a part in our brain called the cerebellum that regulates our ability to feel empathy. It also regulates sleep patterns and stuff like this. And there's a part in our heart, around the thymus and around the SA node, top of the heart, which actually thinks. When we can get in true heart brain coherence, that is when you're striving to achieve the true Philosopher's Stone, where you have this corpus callosum that connects both hemispheres of the brain, the electron and the proton are back together. When you said proton losing its electron, I was like, that's like a man losing his woman in some country song. Because you know what happens when you play country songs backwards, you get your car back, you get your wife back, you get your trailer back, you get all that stuff back. Everything's just about spin. So, when I think about the beauty of the world that it can be and where we are, even though, and I don't know how Matias feels about this, but even though it's difficult what we're experiencing right now, I feel like we're on the verge of something great.
AUBREY: Yeah, and it's not about bypassing the pain and the difficulty and I just... What you feel, the pain that moves through you is also very real. You can't just jump to the, oh, this is all going to be to our benefit without feeling the pain, because part of the jump is the feeling of the pain. So this isn't a spiritual bypass move. This is, feel the pain and the hurt and connect with it. And then move through that, integrate that, include that and then transcend to another belief as well. These concepts, this Philosopher's Stone concept from your earliest memories from that past life, Matias, was this a part of the way that the Atlantean people and the subsequent civilizations that followed, were taught? Was this a body of knowledge that existed in the ancient civilization?
MATIAS: We used to explain everything as tales or stories for everyone to understand it. I don't remember all the stories, but when we talk about unity and separation, they said the oldest story of love is when the one fell alone, and needed to create a second option in order to hug himself, itself. But in order to be able to experience the love outside, it needed to divide itself. So, the separation of one created the first trauma from unity or from the universe to diverse. So, when unity divided itself into two, it was because of love. But in order to do that, it needed to cut itself in two, in half. So, it created the first wound, the first trauma. That created a wave through the cosmos saying every time that you are trying to feel someone, you will have to create a wound. The pain is what makes you realize that the other one is yourself. So, in the past we kind of understood that the pain, the trauma, it was just a way to feel that I am closer to find the other part of me. So, we create these painful situations where we could actually feel the real love. Otherwise, it's just an idea. So, coming back to something more from this reality, from the third dimension is when the wave divided itself into particles, and expressed itself in two options, positive and negative. It was the first time. So, it knows there's only one, that we are all one. But I had to divide myself in order to express myself. So, that created the oldest love story of all, like, these two options that are trying to find each other constantly. But in order to find each other, they need to fight each other, in order to find or figure out how to get together. So, in that time, we perceive that as the twin flame. But the twin flame is not another person, it's another side. So, the twin flame is the opposite to me, but the complement of me. And, I will try constantly to embrace the other side, but because of the trauma separation, I tend to believe that I have to control the other one, in order to make it myself. In order for it to become one, I need to overcome the other. I have to control the other and oppress the other to make it part of myself, when actually is the unity of love or balance. Sometimes when we talk about love from the point of view of the third dimension, we tend to humanize the idea of how the universe leaves this. For sure, the purpose of humanity is about connectivity, connection, love, feeling, and the joy of balance. But from the point of view of the universe, it's basically two options that are trying to find the balance between each other. So, love, as we express here for the universe, is this force of gravity, time and space that is trying to combine constantly, and try to find an order to one another. So, we call that the twin flames. We told the story all the time about these two flames that were two eyes, that were trying to look at each other. But because they are both trying to see one direction, they cannot see each other. They cannot see. So they had to create a third option. And that's the Holy Trinity, which is the third eye. So, by the third eye, you create three eyes, the three eyes of God that manifest a triangle, that is the origin of all the rest of the things. So, they said, because we cannot see each other, we need a third option to create this unity. And what happens in the physical reality is that these electrical poles that unifies the duality, when they collapse to each other, they shine, they create energy. So, light can be only created through the duality. To see can be only created through the options of two. So we need the balance of two options in order to see something. And that light that is created is what we call the third eye. The third option is the energy that gives us clarity between duality. So, the idea of a pyramid is born through this holy trinity of this duality, separating, and creating a third option where the light is found. This third option creates another option, which creates a tetrahedron, and the tetrahedron creates another option, which is the Merkaba. The Merkaba creates another option which is the cube, and so on, until it creates the whole structure of the universe. And, you forget about the triangle, you cannot see it anymore. But it's constantly there in the two eyes and the third eye, the inner vision, the outer vision. And they said when you put those two flames together, you don't create unity, you create balance in order to see the unity. So, in the Nile at that time, they said when you try to unify things that are trying to find balance, you can only create war. You can only create distraction because you are forcing one of the aspects of reality to become like the other one. You are forcing someone or something to become like you. So, unity in the third dimension is not an option. Balance and harmony is an option to find the third point, which is the vision, the triangle. And that's the image of the Philosopher's Stone being created by a triangle, that is two eyes creating one eye, and the eye in the center. So, this symbol was the Eye of God. This symbol was a structure that was created by the ancients to show us the way. You cannot kill the idea of two eyes to become one. You can only create a third option, a vision of unity through these two polarities, in order to see the whole, to see the flame, the divine flame, which is this Philosopher's Stone. Sometimes when we say philosopher, we think about someone in Nile or in Greece. But, philosophy means love and wisdom, love and thinking. So, heart and mind, as Robert was saying. The unity between these two things creates the Philosopher's Stone. And it's a stone because everything is created through the mineral realm, as once we said, like the mineral realm is the basis for all this that exists; the atomic, the molecules, and everything is created by calcium, phosphorus. So, it's the mineral realm actually. This stone is everywhere in our body. We are made of the same chemicals that all the stones are made of. So when you put philo and sophy, which is love and wisdom, together, in your own stones, the ones that are created within you, you are shaping the idea of a triangle that gives you two options, two fires, that usually fight to each other unless they find a third option. And what we are living... In the Nile, what they said was, you have to learn how to weave the positive and the negative, positive and the negative, until you find the whole body. And where we are living today, not today, but always in the history of humanity is usually that one eye for one eye.
AUBREY: And then each eye that's in each balance, then accesses the throat chakra, and they start to speak to try and convince people to see the eye that they're looking through.
MATIAS: Exactly.
AUBREY: That's what we're having in this whole information ecology, which is so wild and crazy. And all of the propaganda that we see in this fifth generational warfare is one side trying to hijack the voice and claim the authority of the voice. So, it's this huge throat chakra activation, where everybody's speaking, and they're speaking not to find the greater harmony necessarily, which would be that third eye perspective, which is I think where we're going and I want to talk about what you've discovered about the throat chakra. Because the world is finding its voice. But it's using that voice to try to hijack the perspective of the third eye, and just say, so, it's interesting that the voice is kind of now being activated. What we're ultimately needing to get to is that place where there's a vision that holds the harmony of these different perspectives, and holds the balance. But in the meantime, because moving from the heart to the mind is the throat, it's in there. So, we're having to deal with all of these voices, some of which have good intentions, many of which do. I mean, a lot of people think that they're speaking what's right and what's true, but they're not aware that they're only speaking from their own perspective, and, they're not actually able to actually then use the voice after accessing that higher perspective of harmony by taking the other perspective. Like, intentionally going in, taking the other perspective, seeing from that perspective. And then, once you've been able to see, truly then using your voice to speak to the harmony.
MATIAS: That's why one eye for an eye, that sentence, an eye for an eye, it's something that has been carved in our society, like this is how I see it, so this is how I speak it. So this is the fight between two eyes. And actually in order to walk straight, you need both eyes to see at one point. That creates the vision of something that is ahead, that is not one side or the other. In our culture and our society, we have been taught to defend one point of view. And that point of view is only one eye, it's only one option. So, all the initiatic paths in the past were trying to show you that there always and will be always two options. The thing is, how can you balance those two options? And as you said, the throat chakra being the center is because the creation is vibration. So, everything that is created is vibration. So, we are basically in a time that everyone has a voice, which means that we are all practicing how to become a creator, but we are still in the fight of one eye, on the one eye. So, I think that where we are going to experience in a long time, is how can we become creators of our own reality, but understanding that acceptance of the other eye would show me the way to the third option, which is creation, which is the unity between ‘philo’ and ‘sophy’.

AUBREY: There's something that's occurring to me here, which goes into Norse mythology. So, there's the story of Odin, who has one eye. I think there's two ways, and then Odin ultimately takes his spear, Gungnir, and he throws the spear at the enemy in the war of the gods. He says, "I see the enemy, I throw my spear, all the warriors of Valhalla rise with me because I've painted the enemy." It's like a laser sight system on a guided missile, right? I've painted the enemy, I've thrown the spear, the warriors rise. So, there's two ways. There's the shadow way, and then there's the light way. One way to look at it is that he's just taken one perspective. He's just got one eye. And so, the shadow of that Odin story would be I'm just taking one perspective, and I'm just pointing at the enemy. This is the enemy, warriors attack the enemy, because it's just one perspective. The other perspective, which would be the light side would be, no, actually, the symbol of Odin of the one eye is the third eye, which is the actual perfect harmony of both eyes, collapsing into one, and then actually throwing the spear from that perspective of full balance, so that we have an action to take in favor of all life, in favor of universal harmony. And so, that in and of itself is that those stories represent one way in which you can see what could happen, and one way in which it could happen the other way. It's like the light side of what this Odin myth could be. And I don't think this is how it's always interpreted, but it's just occurring to me, that we can fall into the shadow of it by saying, oh, I see everything. We're just closing one eye, we're not looking at that perspective. I see the Israel perspective, I see the Palestine perspective, let's point the spear, and then show that. Then, what's really needed is the harmony of both of those eyes to create a third eye, and then the necessity for some action to be taken, some way in which we can stand. I think we're in a battle to see whether we're going to have that one-eyed perspective or whether we're going to have the unity of those eyes creating an action.
ROBERT: I love that Matias brought up the eye for an eye. It's straight out of the Books of Moses.
AUBREY: Code of Hammurabi.
ROBERT: The code of Hammurabi. I think that that metaphor is playing out in a starker way, as we could possibly ever imagine, in a biblical way even, which is kind of take a step back for a moment and then realize the metaphor, and what is there to be learned from this. Another good example of this is the Left Eye of Horus. The Left Eye of Horus was plucked out by Set. Set was the uncle of Horus, Set was the brother of Osiris. He killed his brother, cut him into 14 parts, and then to avenge his father, Horus had a battle with Set, where Set plucked out his left eye. His eye of intuition, the eye that represents the moon. Now, this eye of the moon represents our ability to see this different perspective. So when we actually look at our physicality, the left eye connects to the right brain. So, let's say you’re right-handed, the left eye has an optic nerve that cuts across the optic chiasm. So, it makes the form of an X. And it connects to your right brain of creativity and intuition, and imagination, and that Dark Mother place which would be represented by an Omega symbol, for example. The right eye connects to the left brain, it's the base of analysis, it's the numbers, it's the mathematics, it's the natural science. Where the right brain is more the art, the heartistry, it also represents the music. So, you could say, on both sides of the brain, on the right temporal lobe is the seat of music processing. The left temporal lobe is the seat of mathematical processing. So, we've got these two eyes that can tap into both sides of the brain. So, if you lose your left eye, you've shut off a whole aspect of yourself. You basically shut off the feminine aspect of your brain. Whereas the masculine aspect is the rational seat, that says, don't take that risk, don't do this. Yes, eye for an eye, battle it out, fight it out, et cetera, et cetera. Well, when you think about the rational mind being the shape of linear lines, you could think of that as like a triangle, right? And, the Omega shape, like a rounded type shape. So you've got alpha, you've got the optic chiasm where those two things meet right at the pituitary gland. Literally, the optic nerves criss-cross each other right at the pituitary gland. And then that is right in front of the pineal gland. The pineal gland sits a little bit higher in the brain than the pituitary gland does. But most people don't know. If you watch like a cinefluoroscopy of a heartbeat, you'll see the heart beating, and you'll see the lungs pumping and everything around it. When they're doing like angiograms and stuff, you've probably seen that when you go to hospitals, or to cath labs. Your brain does the exact same thing. As we breathe, our brain actually goes up and down, and it contracts like a heartbeat. Did you know that? It literally contracts and moves with a heartbeat. So, when we take in a breath, the front part of our brain actually lifts and rises up, so that it can get to the same plane for the pituitary which sits slightly underneath lower than the pineal gland. So, if you can raise the feminine which is the pituitary gland, the same plane as the pineal gland, you get an electrical connection there. That means you're basically creating, in this whole area called the hypothalamus, or the thalamus, also known as the wedding hall. It's called the Hall of Brahman, or the wedding cave, or the wedding hall. This is where you have the alchemical union occur, in a not only a philosophical, but in a physical sense. And this is when you have that entrance into an enlightened state. And what is enlightenment? What really changes for you? You've got a complete connection between the two hemispheres of the brain, you've got this third eye now that's basically been fully activated. And as a result, you start to express love and that expression of love supersedes your desire for one objective truth. When the expression of your love for all that is, supersedes your desire for that one objective truth, then you reach Nirvana. And that is what I would say, the best thing I could say would be enlightenment. And that is embodied through this Philosopher's Stone. So, now, if we look at the metaphor of this. So, let's draw a circle in our minds, and then have a square that shares the same base as that circle, just like in the Vitruvian man. One of the guys that's here had a Vitruvian Man tattoo on his arm, I was really interested in it.
AUBREY: Yeah, Eric.
ROBERT: If you just take that exact same thing, take the base of the square, use that as a base of a triangle, connect it to the top of the circle which then is higher than the top of the square, it creates a triangle that has a very unique proportion. It's a very sharp triangle. It's like the Nubian pyramids, it's shaped like that. It's very, very steep looking. That's the one on the dollar bill. That triangle happens to be what we call a perfect triangle that is representing the Philosopher's Stone. So, the Philosopher's Stone has two representations. One representation is an equilateral triangle. The other one is this triangle, it looks like this. It's a very, very sharp, peaked pyramid. That one represents the sun and the moon overlapping each other. Because if you take that same circle that DaVinci used for drawing the Vitruvian Man, the way that that works, if you move the center of the square to the center of the circle, the point at the top of that circle is going to be the exact center of the moon in relationship to the earth. So, the earth would be a circle beneath it, the moon would be above it, and the sun and the moon overlap in that, and it creates this one triangle that has a proportion in Pythagorean mathematics called 5 12 13 triple. So, it has a base of five, has a height of 12, and it has a hypotenuse of 13. This is a perfect triangle. Why do I mean it as a perfect triangle? Because it's the only triangle whose Pythagorean base is equal in its perimeter to its area. So, there's only one circle that can do this. It's a circle with a radius two, and it has a four pi area, and a four pi circumference. There's only one square that can do this, it's a square with a side length of four. Its area is 16, and its perimeter is still 16. And all three pyramids on the Giza Plateau represent the balancing of these things exactly. So, the Menkaure Pyramid represents the perfect square, because you take one half of its base, it's a five over four relationship. These are musical ratios, they're musical intervals. The five or four relationship gives you the perfect four as the base for the square that gives you the perfect perimeter, perfect area. The Khafre Pyramid, the pyramid in the middle is a four over three relationship, that gives you a radius of two. If you make a circle from the base to the top of the pyramid all the way up, that gives you the perfect circle. The perfect circle has the same circumference as it does its area. In the Great Pyramid, if you take one half of its base, it will have something very unique. It squares the circle. So, what I mean by that, it actually takes one half base square, would have the same perimeter as the circle that goes from the base of the pyramid to the top of the pyramid, that has the exact same circumference matching its perimeter perfectly. So, then you have to ask yourself the question, where's the perfect triangle? Perfect triangle doesn't show up on the Giza Plateau. It does show up on the dollar bill, the 5 12 13, and it does show up eight kilometers north of the Great Pyramid in a place called Abu Rawash that looks down on the Giza Plateau. There are two pyramids there. One is an equilateral triangle which represents the pituitary gland. And right adjacent to it is a 67.4 degree angle that represents the pineal gland. So, we're talking about now, ascending beyond the throat chakra, the three layers of the throat chakra, the Great Pyramid representing self-awareness, Khafre Pyramid representing self-actualization, being able to manifest but still be through time dependence. And then the Menkaure Pyramid representing self-transcendence, the recognition of love, the recognition of love transcending above all duality. That's the final stage of the throat chakra. Once you finally hit that stage, then magic returns. But in the backdrop of the world around you, to have that beautiful light, you gave the example earlier talking about Sauron, talking about "Lord of the Rings". When Gandalf the Grey became Gandalf the White, it accompanied in the exact same moment in time, the building of this orc army. There becomes darkness. When I go to buy a diamond in the store, the first thing I do is I ask to place that diamond in front of a really dark velvet cloth. Because it brings out the brilliance of the diamond. The dark needs the light as much as the light needs the dark. The two are acting out in this grand plan, this grand play for us to see these metaphors, to wake up from the duality, and to choose instead love.
AUBREY: As you share this, there's two things. One, just going back to the story of Horus. Seeing through one eye is often facilitated through trauma. You have your eye plucked out. You receive trauma, and I think you can see this on both sides of the current conflict. You see trauma creating a unified, unitary perspective on things, trauma then blinds you in a certain way. And then you're seeing through only one perspective. All of us are feeling this as well, as we receive the pain that we receive. We receive the trauma, even if it's not the first person that we've received it, trauma then creates the inability to see beyond the trauma that we received. And so, that's another clue that's pointed not only from the ancient stories, but then the ancient structures, which the stories pass on information. Whether they're stories from the Bible, whether they're stories from Egyptian culture, stories from Norse culture, stories, all of the great stories from I'm immersing myself in the stories of the First People of Australia, the Aboriginal people who see a relationship of love between self and the rocks. Whereas normally it's just yeah, rocks, fucking cut them up, put them wherever, you got one, move them over here, it doesn't matter. And they're like, "What are you talking about? You gotta ask the rocks if the rocks want to be moved." Even in Hawaii, everybody knows not to take a lava rock from fucking Hawaii. And there's countless examples of, "Well, you haven't asked the rocks, you haven't talked to the rocks, where they want to be." And so, it's the sentience of all life. So there's wisdom that's starting to come back into our culture in many of these different ways. But all of these stories together, plus then these signposts that have been created and encoded in ways that can't be rewritten because they're actually made as these structures. Like stories can be retold and retold. I mean, just look at the Bible, right? A bunch of shit was cut out and a bunch of shit was added, and then manipulated. So you have a story that's also hijacking our information ecology about what the wisdom of Yeshua was, what the wisdom of the Hebrew wisdom traditions. I mean, Solomon's wisdom was cast out of the Hebrew faith, and we're trying to bring back the wisdom of Solomon back in, and many aspects of Hebrewism. Say, like, no, no Solomon, he was a heretic. You've got to get him out. All of these different ways in which we can hijack stories. But the stones, the megaliths, these things where there was a deep wisdom from the ancients to say, alright, we know what people will do with stories to make the stories fit their own ethnocentric, or their own egotistic power. I mean, look at Ramesses II who just said, "No, I built all this shit, it was me. All glory to me." And he's just full of shit. He created a story but the stones tell a different story. And that was like the wisdom of the ancients. Like, oh yeah, we know people will hijack stories and try to change them. But if we encode these stories in the eternal truths, then some people will find their way through these. And then also in other ways to make the story so abstract, like mythology. The story is so abstract nobody's going to change it. Nobody bothers to change the story of Horus, nobody bothers to change the story of Odin. They can interpret it a different way, but it's still the story. And so, what we're seeing now is both the story and these artifacts that are now helping to guide us through these very confusing times, hopefully, through greater and greater synergy and synthesis, and then the awareness that we can see with clarity through our third eye.
ROBERT: One point on Solomon. I was thinking about this this week because of the eclipse that we just experienced. And, I don't think it's a coincidence that the eclipse happened exactly when it happened on the timeline that it did. So again, everything can look as if it's random, or everything can be completely ordered. It's our perception, whether we perceive miracles or not as ultimately our choice. People that don't believe in miracles will never experience a miracle, that I know. And even the name Sol-a-mon. Sol is the word for sun, a Latin is and, mon is moon. Sun and moon, the wisdom of the sun and the moon. That is the Philosopher's Stone. Solomon achieved the Philosopher's Stone.
AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, this is the symbol. If you go deep into the codex of the Solomon wisdom, the symbol is actually represented by the moon. The sun penetrates the moon, and in its fullness, I think the Aramaic, the moon and all of its fullness represents Solomon. Penetrated by the sun, receiving that penetration of the sun, and then illuminating everything from within and casting that light to move the waters of the world. And so, this is part of the deep lineage wisdom that we're recovering, as you said, even encoded in the name itself. And this idea of how we actually move forward in balance this allow ourselves to be penetrated by the light of the sun, and then allow that to illuminate all that's within and move the waters from that place of both receiving and then actually projecting circle and line, both in it's same balance and also reverence at the same time. So, then we're in the process of trying to synthesize all of these stories and all of these clues that have been left behind. But it's really, it's unbelievable and miraculous to understand how deep and ancient this wisdom came from
MATIAS: As Robert was saying, mentalism, the first law of the universe. They knew. That's why I told you, we told stories in the beginning, stories of heroes, the stories of gods, the stories of Adam, Eve, those stories were the only ones that would survive because it nourishes imagination. So, when you try to explain a truth exactly as it is, only a few people would understand it. But everyone will be related to a goddess or a god or a hero, because you can relate with your own life. So, they created stories, so people could remember what actually the information was, saying, it is encoded, and eventually someone, or some group of people will start to understand what these stories actually mean. So, what happened was that we started to create religions around the stories. And, we started to believe them as they were told, and not what they were hiding inside. So, today, because we have the ability to have all the stories together, and most of the people are kind of relating to these stories by movies, by books, you can today understand all the wisdom inside those stories, through your heroes, through these other stories that are being told that are so ancient, so old. And as you see, Marvel has taken all the stories from the Persians, the Norse people, the Greek people, they're bringing them all back. Like, it's been thousands of years of this, and even though--
ROBERT: That's not a coincidence either.
MATIAS: Yeah, it's not a coincidence. All the discoveries and understandings, everything is coming back. When we were traveling also, and some things were happening, it was all about the stories. It's not because we are those people in stories, like sometimes we say, "Oh, maybe I am related to that person." No, it's because they are echoes. They're not talking about the actual people in the story. They're talking about codes that we all have within. That's why we can relate to them, and why we can awaken information through believing that we are those people. When you think you are a god, or someone in the past, or this kind of thing, sometimes it's like, that's very egoistic, you believing you were this king or this. But actually, when you start, even if you know that you weren't, when you start saying, I am that, you somehow uncode what is behind that, like the story of the sword of Merlin and Arthur. I had to believe myself I was one of them to understand what was behind that story.
AUBREY: Yeah, to see through their eyes from that perspective.
MATIAS: Exactly, to see from their eyes. And, many of those, that's why sometimes I do weird stuff most of the time, actually.
ROBERT: I can attest to that.
MATIAS: Oh, yeah, you can.
ROBERT: But we're all weird.
AUBREY: For sure. Matias is just slightly more weird.
ROBERT: He's taken it to another level.
MATIAS: But sometimes it's like, okay, I have to allow myself to become that person, in order to see through their eyes and understand what is behind that. That's why I was living so many crazy stories related to this myth, because they are all telling something that we are all living today. And if we start to relate to those stories, and we say, I am Merlin, or I am Arthur, or I am Horus, these kinds of things, so we start to understand the codes behind it. Because we start to see through the eyes of the story and not looking at the story.
AUBREY: There's two things that I want to touch on here that were brought up that I think are very interesting. One, I want to go into the story of Arthur and Merlin and Excalibur, and how that also relates to the Philosopher's stone. Also, just want to get both of your perspectives on this recent eclipse, and this eclipse season that we're in. I've felt the eclipse in a way that I've never felt anything that's happened astrologically in my life. It was one of the wildest, personal internal experiences I had during that recent eclipse. So, I want to touch on both of those different things, go deeper into the Arthurian story, and also, let's talk a bit about what happened here in the eclipse, and a way to read into that beyond what your local Instagram authority is going to tell you about the eclipse. Alright, so I'll briefly share my experience of the eclipse. So, I wake up and I'm kind of in the liminal space in between sleeping and being awake. I get this dream that comes through. In this dream, the dream is that I had somehow done something that fucked up the timeline that we were on in the multiverse. I had done something that fucked up the timeline, and it was my fault that things were going awry in my life in the collective, and this feeling that my life and the collective were inextricable, which I think there's some truth to that as within so without. There is some connectivity. But the slippery part of this was this idea that I did something that was so powerful it took the whole world onto a different negative timeline. I woke up, I was like, "This is not true. This can't be true." But I think it wove itself into my own psyche through a vulnerability in my psyche, which is this vulnerability of the ego. The ego that wants to believe that it's all powerful, and it can control everything. I've actually seen this play out in different periods of psychosis during an Ayahuasca journey, or different ways in which people have found themselves in a "hell." The hell is I am so powerful, which first you get into the psyche through the ego. I am so powerful that I did something that broke the world. And then you have all of the shame, and all of the guilt that you hold that actually starts to eat you up inside. So, that was the way, just call it the devil for now. The devil found its way in. And I've seen the devil find its way into other people's psyches with this belief. I am so powerful that I broke the world, and it's all my fault. Then I've seen people move into taking actions of physical harm against themselves for that. So, I go into this, and then I have to keep telling myself, "No, this is not true." But it was persistent. It was like that idea found its way in until I was able to, it was out in the sun, and I was just feeling the sun and before the eclipse. As the eclipse happened, I started to realize this trap that was set for me in this, and then ultimately transcend the trap and say, no. Everything is on the right timeline, and all I have to do is believe in this new timeline, and also let go of this trap that had come in. I found for the first time in this, one of the most incredibly painful weeks that I'd experienced with all of the trauma that was going on in the world, I found my first feeling of peace and joy. And in this eclipse, I was in there and I felt the sun, which seemed like it was a full sun at full blast. I didn't have the, whatever, goggles or whatever, things that I could see what it was, but it was surprisingly cold as well. And I was like, this is the trippiest feeling. And it was like all the animals were quiet, everything in the whole world kind of stopped. So, from my experiences, I felt this rush of dark energy come in before it happened. And then the release of some patterns and some awareness that came in on the other side. So it was like almost this, what felt like an attack, or at least the exposure of a vulnerability that allowed me to realize things about myself and my own ego and vulnerabilities in my ego. And then also, in the release of that I found a massive experience of growth. And so, that was my personal experience on the eclipse. But as I shared earlier on the podcast, I'm not a big astrology guy, though. I've started to see correlations with activities within me, especially with lunar cycles. And now with these solar cycles and the eclipse cycle. So it's opening my mind more and more, especially because I'm surrounded by astrologists and these things. So it's opening my mind more and more to these possibilities to the point where I'd have to say, catch me a year ago, I was like, "Yeah, I don't believe in this shit. You make your own stars." And now I'm like, "Fuck, maybe I need to rethink this."
MATIAS: I've felt it.
AUBREY: I felt it, I need to rethink this position. But yeah, just wanted to open this up before we go into the story of Arthur any deeper, to just hear from your perspectives about what the eclipse means, maybe even what the ancients thought about it. And, what you guys also experienced during this unique event.
MATIAS: I would say first what an eclipse is. Because most of the people have different opinions on what to do during an eclipse. Because for many cultures, mainly native cultures, an eclipse is something terrible. So, for astrology, also, it represents a dark moment. So, some people advise don't do ceremonies, don't do meditations, don't do this, that. And, some other cultures are like lockdown, don't see it. And one of the reasons why that happened in our psychology is because we were built to see the sun and to follow the sun. So, our body is designed to follow the light of the sun. So when the moon goes in front of the sun, and suddenly there is shade and cold and everything, it's interpreted like there's something wrong. The sun should be shining and should be given life and clarity. So this means darkness. So it means something is wrong. It shouldn't be happening. So, in our deep psychology, we tend to believe that because it's not natural, it is wrong. So bad things can happen. Okay? But, actually, what happens during an eclipse, is like a needle of energy that goes straight to territory. And it's like acupuncture of the sun to specific lands, specific territory to touch something that has been hidden within very deep and we don't know how to take out. So, the shade of the moon on the earth is like a shade of the subconscious being physical. And, usually, we don't want to face the shit that we have inside. So that's why we say that's wrong, because the darkness comes out. But if you don't deal with the darkness, so you don't know how to shine, because you expect for the sun to shine for you, but only in the shadows, as you were saying before, you can see the light within. So, opposite to all these traditions, I believe that eclipses are like a tic, toc, tic toc in time and space that says, pay attention to this, pay attention to this, pay attention to this, you are not taking care of this. So there are specific portals to understand our inner darkness. And that's why we are so scared about what eclipses mean. So, personally, for many years of my life, I was unable to do anything during an eclipse. With my mom, we did a calendar when an eclipse would happen. So I didn't go to school or anything like that. Because I was like lying in bed, like dying, until I managed to handle my own darkness. I was like, okay, so I saw the light, and I was handling the portals. I had a lot of people saying, you are opening dark portals because you go to eclipses and these things. But I believe that what we are doing is going deep into the subconscious and trying to face what is inside of it, in order to bring clarity to it. So, I wasn't supposed to be here in October for this eclipse. I had no idea there was an eclipse until I arrived here. I didn't pay attention to it. But there were many clues that told me to be here in this moment. It all started actually in Jerusalem. Why I ended up here during the eclipse. In my personal path of this task, the planetary task that I was doing, I was with a group of people in Jerusalem a few weeks ago. And, the spirit of Melchizedek who was a ruler in Jerusalem way before the Jews came to the land, or way before any other religion came to the land, like around 7000 years ago, and in that moment, that land was called the City of the God of Sunset, which is ‘Jeru’, city, Salem which is the name of the God of Sunset. So he was the ruler of the sunset, because sunset means peace. So it's the moment when everything gets still. So it's also justice and peace. So that's why the word became a synonym of peace or justice. So the ruler of the city of them, the ruler of the city of Salem was the bringer of justice, which is Melchizedek. So, we received a message of him to go into the four quarters of the city, like if it was a baby trying to be born, like a fetus that needed to be repaired and reconnect. So, they said, there's an Armenian quarter in Jerusalem which was the head, then the heart in the Christian, then the sacrum in the Muslim, and then the feet in the Jews, the Jew part of the city. So, if you follow the circle, you create a spiral, like this Fibonacci spiral along the city, and you connect the four quarters, like Cardo and Decomanus which is the four streets of the Roman city, which is also like a cube, a square that goes solstices and equinoxes. So, they said, connect them and create above and below the sun and the moon, the light and the dark as one together, to make sense of what this land means. So, to bring the peace means to go into the dark to see beyond, to see something that is within, and find justice within before trying to put justice outside. So we walked the city many times in circles. It was a long thing. We did that. And, we went to the Dead Sea as a way to work with the moon, with death, and then the life in the Galleria Sea. So, we crossed all that, and we ended in Tabor, in the Mount Tabor, which is the Mount of Transfiguration, the transformation of everything. There, we went to a place close by a cave with a group of people. There were ashes on the floor. I started to channel this priest, and he grabbed all the ashes and put it on my body. It was all covered in ashes, and all white. And he said, "Soon the world will be in ashes. There is going to be a war that will cover everything into ashes. And when everyone is looking into the ashes, and being afraid of the war, there should be people trying to find the spark inside. That spark is going to light up after the shade as the phoenix”, so that message was longer. This is a summary. But that message was like 10 days before what happened in Israel and Palestine.
ROBERT: And by the way, we talked about it, like almost a week before the whole thing happened in Israel.
MATIAS: Yeah, totally. We talked about it. After that, I flew to Phoenix. So, I was like, "Oh, Phoenix. Perfect." So, I was like, okay, so I flew to Phoenix, and I realized that there was an eclipse, here in Phoenix. Okay, perfect. So, where the eclipse went through, it's the four corners. So four states, exactly like the city of Jerusalem. It was right in the middle. So it crossed there. This eclipse was with the moon in Libra, which means the balance between two sides that are opposite to each other, that are in fight to one another. So, how to bring light and clarity between two sides that are opposite to each other. What is the conflict between these two realities to put them together? So, when I saw that it was the same pattern from Phoenix, the four corners, the four neighborhoods, and I saw the shade of the moon, of the Libra moon, it showed that somehow, when we were getting ready for that, it all started in Israel. The message was, we all need to balance. When that happens there, what is needed to balance is here, which is the Americas. They said, because the shade, the park ignited there, but the shade is here. The shade is in the three Americas. So, what is coming next is what is going to happen in the Americas. So, what we have to pay attention, is that this conflict is not just any conflict in the Middle East. It's the beginning of the sunset of the dark side of this dark eye, the dark vision of duality, trying to put together the balance. The place that you have to balance in order for that to have a purpose is here, not right there. There is like the spark that shows what is the conflict, but here is the balance of what could become the conflict. It was not just talking about an outer world, it was finding a spark within all the ashes that will be around the world. The spark, I think, is this ability to see beyond the conflict that is happening, which is this third eye in the middle of all this conflict, to say this is happening because something needs to die in order for a new thing to be reborn. But if we are paying attention to the ashes, we won't see and we will miss the spark of why it's happening. Melchizedek said there, that during the eclipses, we will face the ashes and the spark. Ashes and spark, ashes and spark, and we have to look within those sparks in order to hold what is going to happen in the world. But it was not like you have to prevent, or we have to prevent this. It's like this is happening, so you better do something for this to actually have a purpose and not to be just chaotic. So, in my experience when I was there during the eclipse in the Great Canyon, what we did was to receive all information of conflicts from the subconscious. And, we tried to create clarity, to put it back in the system saying everything that is in conflict actually is creating something new. So, how this duality can be unified as a creator. We have been trying to work with that idea all the time with all the people that were in the circle, and all the messages were follow what is happening in the next eclipse will tell you how to keep going. And the next eclipse that will happen will create a cross in the middle of the States.
ROBERT: Not just any state but right over Austin.
MATIAS: Yeah, exactly.
ROBERT: Austin and San Antonio.
MATIAS: Which is the teat of the cow, which as I said, the Milky Way, the stars, the path of the stars. I call the states a cow. That's why. Texas are the teats. So, it crosses exactly there, saying something must change in the skies in the path, in the way we do things, in how we follow our initiatic path. The last words were, this is the beginning of the end, the end of the beginning, and something like that. I didn't understand that. And then all the numbers that I shared with you, the oldest codes that basically were describing the pyramid, to find the spark inside, this Philosopher's Stone, to unify these two sides. So, I think that where we are living today, what just happened, we are all connected to this story of trying to find balance in this conflict, which is not a conflict in Israel, or Palestine. It is a conflict that has lived within us since 2000 years, approximately, which was how that territory was created as a point for enlightenment, and is trying to show us how we treat enlightenment, and how we have to deal with our own shadows. That's why the eclipses are the keys to open that and we should stop fearing them, and face them to see what actually we have to do.
AUBREY: Wow. I mean, that's such a potent transmission. And also, the part of my own story about the eclipse is what just occurred to me naturally. I was basically planning to just make a little video talking about how incomprehensible the feeling of it was, but then also, I just intuitively was like the lesson here is to find the light, the spark within my own heart, and the unborn undying spark within our own hearts. It's interesting that Austin is the place of the next eclipse. Austin is a center for information that's actually coming out. I mean, so many of the big podcasts are located in Austin. Elon Musk lives, at least part of the time in Austin. He's holding, really the only true free speech platform besides podcasts that are out there. And so, it's interesting just to look at that from a perspective about how that can help bring this synthesis together, potentially. But fuck, I mean, really, really powerful transmission. Do you have any additional thoughts to add to that, Robert?
ROBERT: Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's interesting. I used to be Mormon. So that was part of my path. And when I was 19, I served as a Mormon missionary in South Korea. And in order to do that, you have to be ordained to their high priesthood, which is called the Order of Melchizedek. So it's kind of an interesting thing. You see the path of your life and again, you don't see how the dots connect until you can see them in retrospect. But Melchizedek as we just heard, Malchi means king, or Melik is the, or Malik. It's like a surname in India as well and Pakistan, which means king. Zedek can mean justice. Salem is ‘peace’. My children go to a school system that's called Salem. You kind of start realizing, wait a minute, all of these things are connected. And if there's one pattern amidst a sea of randomness, then mathematically we must assume that the entire sea is patterned. We just can't see the pattern. Because for it to produce a pattern at all, any pattern, then the whole thing is patterned, we just can't see it. We can't perceive it. So, it's kind of like the notion that the crisscross of this eclipse is happening right on top of Texas. Texas, is also another name. Texa is from Tehuti. It's also related to Thoth. And of course, the bull is another symbology. The moon on top of the mercury symbol, it looks like the horns of a bull. The X, you could put Te, and then the xas, and the X is right in the center of the of the word as well. So I mean, all of these symbologies actually matter when you start realizing that it's a game, and this is when the game changes. Because until you realize it's a game, it can be hellish. But the moment you realize it's a game, then you can start to feel how to play that. And this is what Hindus call Leela.
AUBREY: Divine play.
ROBERT: Exactly. So we're now in the stage of the divine play, which is also very exciting. For me, it was a weird thing. Like you, I wasn't even thinking about this eclipse. But in 2017, the eclipse that happened in August of 2017 was a huge one for me. It was huge. I remember, in Orange County, we didn't have full totality. We had 61.8%, which I was like, that's a coincidence, that's the golden ratio. So, I was up on top of my building, I had my big binoculars that were like 50X Zoom. And then I had mylar covers on them, so I could look directly on it. And then I went and bought this obsidian plate that looks like a scryer stone, almost. So you could put it right over the sun, and you could see through the obsidian exactly the eclipse and look at it without damaging your eyes. Something about that was so powerful from an alchemical perspective. I knew that it was having a very profound transformational change on me. And as a result, it brought something up in me, so that I ended up going to Egypt only a month or so later in October. And I had this huge catharsis during my spiritual path. I just finished a big crisis and survived through this crisis, and I was still dealing with the aftermath of it. So all this pain and anguish and everything, all these people that betrayed me, and hurt me and everything. I ended up winning the battle, but I felt like I lost a war. I just felt so much in despair, and I was in denial of it, because when you're in survival mode, you don't have time when the wooly mammoth is going to come step on you. And either you're going to survive that, or you're not going to survive that. You don't have time to be thinking about your emotions. And I think for a lot of us men, we tend to create our personas in a way based on those times that we can ascribe to the moments that we felt either ashamed and so I don't want to be that. It's like Adam in the Garden of Eden. God says, "Adam, where art thou?" He's, "I was hiding. I realized I was naked, and I covered myself with a fig leaf." "Who told you you were naked?" "The woman that thou gave me and commanded I remained with her, she gave me the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and I did eat." So the first thing instead of saying, okay, I was ashamed, because that's the first emotional state that's described of Adam in the Bible, said, and Adam was ashamed. The first thing he does is he immediately transmutes that to blame, and he blames it on the woman. So, shame equals blame, very quickly, for us. Whatever we can't face, it's like you described earlier, looking directly at the sunlight, looking directly at a very, very bright light that you just can't look at it, you have to look away from it. That's what we do. We transmute shame into blame. And the other thing that we use to create our personas and separation more is moments of vulnerability. Because none of us like that uncomfortable feeling of feeling vulnerable, like I could be hurt. And we've probably all been there in some way, shape, or form. You're about to fall in love with someone, and then you do something, you don't even understand why you did it. Like you push them away somehow. Because you're afraid of getting hurt. So for me, I was in Italy. I realized that... I went to Italy. I was invited, I was recognized by the country of Montenegro for all things, for my work in science and philanthropy and stuff like this, and polymathing. And so they asked me to receive this honor. I didn't have to make any oaths or anything, it was nothing like that. So they just gave me an honor. It was the same one, like Nikola Tesla received as well. So, I was happy to receive it. I didn't realize that that happened on Friday the 13th. That Friday the 13th was exactly 600 or 716 years from the Friday the 13th where all the Knights Templar were basically disbanded by King Philip of France because they were opening their voices and calling out his corruption. Because they saw that they were working more for the papacy at that time than they were for the local king. And, so therefore, he went and burned all them at the stake. Now, some of them escaped. They went to Scotland. Some people think that they took the Ark of The Covenant with them. There's a whole story about that. But the whole thing happened on the exact same October the 13th, from 716 years before. And so of course, whenever you get some sort of recognition like this, it makes you kind of think and wonder, what's happening in my life, why am I getting this? What's the purpose of this? I'm not even sure how to feel about it. I'm still processing it. And what I realized as I was flying home on the airplane, was when the eclipse was happening. So, the eclipse was exactly happening while I was on the airplane. I remember feeling sick to my stomach. I couldn't understand why I felt something sick to my stomach. I mean, it really gave me a bad stomach ache. I felt like I had a stomach flu or something, but I didn't have a stomach flu. I couldn't quite figure it out. I just felt uneasy. I realized as I landed, that there was something related to my aversion to vulnerability. That this was impacting a huge part of my life. And what happens is, we go through this path to start to learn non judgement, the things that still show up in the world around us are the things that we judge in ourselves in some way, shape, or form, and it creates this veritable U inverse scenario. So, the things that I was still judging in the world, the things that I really can't stand, that I've always had a hard time with, things like anything that involves a crime with a child, anything that involves a crime with a child, that just makes me triggered like crazy, right? I'm sure you've felt the same way. And then, or even trying to force children into choice of a gender when they're only two or three years old, right? Those types of things were things that were still left in my world. And so, about six months ago, I decided I need to kind of let go of this to a certain extent. Not that I can't observe that it's something that is bad or evil. Is there evil in the world? Absolutely there is evil in the world. Don't kid yourself. But how we respond to that evil, how we get triggered, so that we'll want to do an eye for an eye, or a tooth for a tooth. I think that is the most important thing. Again, it doesn't matter how we all die, we're all going to die. What matters is how we decide to live. And not being triggered by it was an important thing for me. So, then the last thing that I was feeling was, I've still always had a hard time. I'm at the Vatican, looking around, and I'm like, "Man, you just feel a sense of hypocrisy." It's deep. It's been in me, right? I remember teaching it when I was out as a missionary. And I had to also kind of let that go, because what that really represented as well, is something either that I haven't recognized inside myself. That the thing that I'm calling out in the world around me, is still me. And I pushed it out of myself. So I found myself feeling very, very vulnerable and kind of uneasy the last few days. And, it's been leading to a lot of downloads. I also had experience in the Great Pyramid only about three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I was in Egypt. And I had similar types of experiences as Matias. I've shared a lot of these types of things with him as well, because he gets remarkably so. He gets his own way of getting information and channelings, I also get mine which happened to come in the form of mathematics. Literally, it comes in the form of mathematics, and I write a book in mathematics or it's geometry. So, the first time we met in person, I said, "What are you seeing lately? Let's compare notes." And he's like, "I see this shape all the time." I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's the exact same pyramidal triangular shape that I've been working on the last four weeks, the exact same proportion." So he gets it in the sense of more that's purely from the heart, emotional center. I might get it more from the logos. His is more pathos, mine's a little bit more logos. That's why we can compare notes. But it's remarkably the same, mind bogglingly so. So then you know that maybe there are some people who can tap into this field of information that's coming. And based on our eye of vision, how much bias we have towards the left or the right eye, is how we're going to perceive that message. But when we can combine them, this becomes a metaphor also of what's happening with the sun and the moon merging. And it's not just between us, it's all of our collective friends, who are all going through this because we're all the same thing. The one divides itself into the many simply for the joy of becoming one again, as Emily Fletcher, our mutual friend says. I fundamentally believe that that's what the eclipse represents. It's this alchemy of turning lead into gold, the recognition that maybe what's happening right now, if there's a silver lining in any of this. And I know it's so difficult because it'll bring me to tears again, I don't want to even go there right now. But I'll just say that maybe the silver lining is, it's so dramatic right now that finally mankind will start to see that it's time to choose love, and express that love rather than pick sides.
AUBREY: This leads into, I think one of the ways that I understand and process, and part of it is the feeling tone. I feel the world, I go find what I feel in my body is true from my psychonautic journeys, and these experiences, and sometimes it comes in many different ways, but also going back again to stories. And one of the oldest stories that I was attracted to is the Arthurian legends. I actually studied extensively in college, Middle English romances and these stories. I was reading the old texts and the old stories as much as I could to understand it. Because there was something irresistible to me about the story of Arthur, and how Arthur created Camelot. The more beautiful world our hearts know as possible. Camelot, Arkadia, we have a lot of names that we're calling it, but it's a place that is aspirational. It's a guiding aspirational concept. And so, how did he do it? Well, he took the throne, and he flattened it down to a round table. Put himself as equal to all of his knights. There was a bit of patriarchy there, so it was all knights. But as we retell the story, of course, the mages and the wisdom keepers are there. And this is one of the things that Solomon combining with Arthur has now become a kind of a new combination story of the mythos. Solomon, who had 1000 wives, you could interpret that as, oh, he just had a harem, like all of the other kings of the time, and he was just having his pleasure and his play and whatever it is kings have always done. But really, the deeper wisdom of that is, he was knowing in the biblical sense all of the priestesses of all the Mystery Schools and all the wisdom traditions, and trying to synthesize those by giving them a seat at the round table in his own heart. And then from that synthesis of putting yourself on a level playing field with all of the disparate voices, all of the different stories, all of the wisdom traditions, emerges, Excalibur. So, Excalibur to me, and this Philosopher's Stone, one way I could interpret the story is stuck in the middle of the table. And to activate the table, you need all the people who hold the knowledge and hold the wisdom and be able to listen. The good king is the one who listens the best. And then when you've listened, and you've harmonized all of those voices, you can pull Excalibur, which is your power from the center of the table. And that sword, which is direction, which is Tilos, which is a way, and we think of swords as they've been used in their shadow form to just cut people down to pieces. No, that's not it. Sword is discretion, sword is the way forward, how to lead forward, but only you can pull that sword from the stone of the center of the roundtable by listening to everybody who's at the table, and then be able to carry the sword, and then hold a place that's more beautiful than the place that we exist. And so, that's become kind of a guiding story for me. And I know that you've both interacted with that story in different ways and have different ways to tell it. And I think that's the beauty of a great story is we can interpret that story in a different way. We can place Excalibur in a different place, it could not be at the center of the table, it could be at a different stone and the stone is part of a new sciatic past. So I just want to open that up. Because there's my telling of the story, and then open it up for your telling of the story. Not to say which story is the right story because they're all the right story, for you. If that feels fully true in your own body.
MATIAS: All the stories have many layers for each one of us to discover specific information behind it. So, we always see the same story in different ways because a story is for that. For each one of us to discover our own task on it. I remember one of the first talks that we had, by mistake, we weren't supposed to be together in the same place. Sorry, but I don't usually like Miami. But I was pushed to be there in a convention of something that I also don't understand, which is Bitcoin.
ROBERT: That's right.
MATIAS: And, I somehow, we still have--
ROBERT: Through a mutual friend. Justin Rezvani.
MATIAS: Yeah, we were there. I showed you something about the triangle. You said, "I've been working the same thing." And you were showing me something on the computer. But as we were talking by mistake, you opened a file where there was Excalibur.
ROBERT: A sword, yeah. A sword I drawn.
MATIAS: I said, "I've been working with that. I've been just receiving that information." I said, "I just did it on the plane."
ROBERT: My downloads come as visual and artistic and mathematical. So, I just draw what I see immediately. And I was just combing through the photographs. And he's like, "What's that?" I said, "It's a sword. It's like a Metatron sword. It's also Excalibur." And you were like, "Wait."
MATIAS: "I just received the same thing regarding that." Basically, I don't know if it was before or after I went close to the North Pole.
ROBERT: You go everywhere.
MATIAS: In Svalbard. I was there on a boat. When I was connecting there in the ice sheet of the North, touching the eyes of the North Pole, and suddenly I saw the roundtable on the north of the planet. And the swords were the magnetical field, all opening like this. And there was one sword in the center carved, which is Earth, like the Philosopher's Stone being Earth, and the sword being the magnetical North Pole, moving, like Heimdall opening the Rainbow Bridge for the gods to move from one realm to another. So, he also uses a sword to move and to open the portal in Asgard. The Rainbow Bridge is actually the crown of all the colors, the 12 colors around, that creates the magnetical field of the planet. And, he said, this is the King of the Kings, is the crown of thorns, which are actually swords. And the swords or thorn, it depends on if you want to become the victim or the empowered one. And wherever the sword is moving, the rainbow will shine in different ways. So, they said Arcturus actually means bear, the animal. So, that's why they call it the Arctic. The Arctic is the same name of Arcturus. So, Arcturian, the Arctur star, the blue star in the sky, Arcturus is actually a way to define the north. And they call it the North like that, because the bears, the white bear, were living in the north. So, they call it the land of the bear, the Arctic. And the one that rules is Arcturus. So, the king of the Kings, Arthur, is actually the North Pole. The roundtable is actually the magnetical field of the planet. And, all the different swords, or the thorns of the crown are all this source of the knights moving around. So, they say whenever we arrive to understand that the roundtable is the planet, and that the sword is the empowerment of the North Pole, which we are all living by that because our brain was designed to look for the North Pole. So when you find your axis, which is your own sword, which is here... So that's why...

AUBREY: Matias is crossing his body for those who are listening on audio.
MATIAS: Yeah, so it's what do you think, what do you feel and what do you do, which is like the cross. But the first cross was not the Christian cross. It was, you have to be coherent in every solstice and equinox. When the sun moves around the roundtable then you have to be coherent with yourself in what you think, what you feel, and what you do. That was a very ancient symbol to remind us that the sun on Earth, through the precession of the equinoxes, reminds us to be in the center and to be the King of the Kings, following the North, Arthur. To do that, you need to take the sword from the stone, and to empower yourself in this sword. So, I said, so what is this? They said, "Go to the stone which is the egg, the egg of the creation." I was in Tel Aviv and I received a message from you saying, "Would you come with us to Delphi?" Delphi means womb, and there's an egg which is a stone. So, I said, of course, I have to go to that stone. And after that you have to find the light in the stone. So, where's the light of the stone? Liechtenstein, so it's a small country, which means the bright stone. So from Delphi, I went to Liechtenstein, like running around the planet to find that stone, the Philosopher's Stone. So, the messages were, follow the golden X, like in the myth. So, in Liechtenstein, there is a museum where there's all the golden eggs, and the last one is a little piece of the moon. Like the golden egg in the sky that shines with the crown during an eclipse. So, I was following that story to arrive to the Philosopher's Stone, which was the first thing that we talked, at the beginning. There, up there on a hill of Liechtenstein, I found a cross. And it said, take the sword from the stone, the stone of light. If you take it and empower yourself, you will see the shining interior of the egg, which is the planet. So, you will be able to transform lead into gold. To transform lead into goal is to take the cross and make it into a sword. I remember the story in that moment of Jesus saying to Shimon, you are my stone, and above you, I will build my church. So he created Saint Peter. Peter means Pietra which is stone in Latin. So, you will be my Pietra, you will be my stone. And on you, I will build my power. So, Jesus was the sword, and Peter was a stone. So, for Christianism is also Excalibur. But this time, the sword is carved in stone. So, St. Peter's Square, the Vatican is actually a key for all the rest of the world to hold the sword on the stone, when you actually have to take it out to see the bright side of the egg of the stone. So, I asked, "What shape is that?" They said, well, when you take this cross, and you turn it into a sword going up into the sky, like the North Pole should be facing to Arthur, darkness had designed the symbol as the Antichrist. So, nobody ever does this. So, nobody ever gets control of their own self. Because that would mean that you are turning the cross on the other side. So collectively, the evil side of the system designed the Antichrist as an idea for you not to hold the sword, which is actually the medicine wheel. The medicine wheel within you, not outside. So, the story for me is more about the precession of the equinox, than actually a king. And how we have been living through different periods, trying to find the symbol that reminds us to be in the center, to follow our own crown. So, when all that happened that took me to where we were in Troy, and Ephesus in Turkey. And when we went there, there was this story of Rome that was created by actually Troy. And Troy exists because there was a heel of a goddess called Arte which is the goddess of confusion. She was kicked out from the Olympus, because she was confusing everyone. She was the daughter of the goddess of discord. So she was the one creating the apple that confuses the three, the trinity of feminine, that created the story of the apple and Troy, with the king of Troy.
AUBREY: Quick recap of that story. There was an apple, and the goddesses were then... One was going to be chosen as the most beautiful, and then it brought the goddesses into discord with each other, into this period of separation and competition. That created a whole mess of people in this win-lose, rivalrous, conflict kind of metric of comparison and measuring instead of the intrinsic, unique magnificence of each person, and saying that's impossible to decide. Beauty is intrinsically eternal and unique.
MATIAS: Yeah, and the discord of the story with the apple, and an apple is a symbol of the toroid, Taurus. So the Apple is a Taurus. So, what happened is that there is the Trinity, the Holy Trinity that was in discord was Love, which is Aphrodite. Wisdom, which is Athena. And Will, which is Hera. So, the three main goddesses that represent the empowerment of the feminine through wisdom and love, they enter in discord, which is the opposite of a chord in music. So, she created dissonance to create confusion to make all the symbols of alignment and empowerment into the opposite. So, what she did was to become the horse of Troy, Arte, this goddess in that hill, created confusion to all the symbols. So she went to Rome with Annas and they found they created Rome after that. So, all the confusion started there through a stone with a cross on the top, which is Excalibur. And so, all the people were following the north, but suddenly they were following the cross. So, all the people were following themselves, and suddenly they were following a king. So it was all these confusions being created from this goddess that created the apple, that in every story, the apple was the creation of the conflict. So, what I felt in the North Pole at that moment was how all the stories of the apple, the stone, the sword, the cross, Jesus, Arthur, were all connected into the same story. It was all the same. And it's related to how each culture perceived their relationship with the precession of the equinoxes. And how we follow the star in the sky in the north. And from that story, we create all the confusion.
AUBREY: Wow, as you're saying this, I got to take an early look at a new film by a guy named Lubomir Arsov, and he created the film, "In Shadow". I don't know if you guys have seen it. It's one of the most powerful short films, no words, pieces of art that I've ever seen in my life. He's working on a new one, and the hero wades through all of the confusion, all for the breakdown of information ecology, all the propaganda, all the darkness, in the form of confusion and distortion, and delusion. And he finds his sword. And when he finds his sword, he raises it straight to the sky. And the merger of the union of the masculine and feminine and all of that is woven in that, and I couldn't help but think of how these symbols are whispered to you in one way, and again, whispered to you, Robert, in another way. And then even Lubomir in his own way, just had the instinct to take that sword and instead of pointing it at somebody or slashing with it, raises it straight to the sky to the north, to Arcturus, Arthur.
MATIAS: Yeah, because it's the same symbols.
ROBERT: It's fascinating, because what makes me think of, is the Emerald Tablets. So, there's a whole section in the Emerald Tablet section 10. It’s X. X is becoming a dominant aspect of society if you haven't noticed, it shows up everywhere. From companies changing their names to X, to genders now being referenced as X even, in some cases. I think it's pointing back to this middle way, the divine hermaphrodite aspect, which is a symbolism of Thoth. And what it says in the story, in this section, it talks about the wheel of time and how time actually works through this procession. I'm speaking at the Precession of Equinox Conference on Saturday. Graham Hancock and all these other ancient civilization type people are going to be speaking at this conference in Palm Desert where I'm going as well after this. And what it basically speaks to is the Celtic cross. The Celtic cross. The knowledge that time actually loops on itself, that there is a cycle as you described it. And culture is having the relationship and understanding of that. So very few cultures do understand it. But as we come to the knowledge of it, then we can start to understand non-duality and transcend beyond duality. Transcending beyond duality no longer choosing. So choosing love instead of choosing one or the other allows you to transcend time. That allowance of transcendence of time means you understand that everything is retro causal. We all conceptualize the notion that the past and the present somehow relate in some mathematical equation to a future state. But what we don't often recognize is that the future is equally entangled to the past, as the past is to the future. So, in other words, everything is retrocausal. The future is determined by the past, but the past is also determined by the future. So, as we look at all the stories of mythologies and in this Emerald Tablets, in this one section, Thoth says, I placed upon my head a crown of silver. Why did he say silver? Crown of silver. Of course, that point was significant to me, because one of my companies was, I named it Crown Sterling, I don't even understand why I named it Crown Sterling. And we'd have created a new platform that is called Orion, which, alongside X will also be a purely free speech platform. It's all super encrypted, and it's all decentralized. And there's no limit to the size of groups that you can have on this platform as well. Which means you could have hundreds of millions of people in one chat, flattening borders. But when we start thinking about this notion of X and the Celtic cross and the knowledge that time cycles on itself in this 24,000 year cycle, then we start realizing, wait a minute, are we all just on a giant hero's journey that is repeating over and over and over again. One of the greats, I know you've probably read all of the labors of Hercules. Because I can see you as a kid probably reading this type stuff, totally into it.
AUBREY: Of course. Devoured it.
ROBERT: Totally see it. So, one thing you notice in the story of Hercules, it's a terrible story in a way, but--
AUBREY: Doesn't end well.
ROBERT: It doesn't end well. It doesn't start well, either. Because, here he is, he's born of Zeus, and this other woman, and of course, Hera, Zeus's wife, is upset. So, she doesn't like Hercules from the start. So she's going to put every obstacle in Hercules's path possible. So she changes herself, right? She changes his family that he's happy with into monsters, Hercules comes home, he's the hero, he slays the monsters, not realizing he just slayed his whole family. That's the story. So, in order to redeem himself of this horrific sin and it was an accident, because he would have never slayed his family. He thought that somehow his family was in danger. He had to kill the monsters. He didn't realize that the family was the monsters.
AUBREY: So, Arte, again, coming from jealousy, jealousy creating desire, creating confusion, creating destruction and degradation and shame, and all of these different things.
ROBERT: But, interestingly, the whole story starts with Zeus saying, too many monsters in the land, we need to clean this shit up. So, then next thing you know, Hera gets angry, does the confusion thing like Arte. Then Hercules has to go on this journey to redeem himself and perform these 12 labors. Well, what happens throughout this whole process is you find Hera showing up several times, trying to thwart the efforts of Hercules actually successfully achieving the tasks.
AUBREY: Yeah, because when she first sent the poisonous serpents to kill him in his crib, he just strangled those motherfuckers. He was a strong baby.
ROBERT: But what is this telling us? That no matter how she tried to change the outcome, nothing she did could change the outcome. This is a theme throughout all of Greek mythology. Even the stuff she tried to do, the grandfather paradox, the grandmother paradox, whatever, tried to change it to mess it up for him, his destiny was still set. And even in the end, when he died, he was invited into Olympus, right? And of course, it was an ironic thing that led to his death. But when you look at the story of Thoth putting on upon his head in this section about time and Roman numeral 10 of the Emerald Tablets, placed upon my head the crown of silver, what does that represent? Well, most don't know that Robert the Bruce, was actually crowned, another person I'm sure you would know. Because you probably know every history kind of hero that there was.
AUBREY: I know a lot of them.
ROBERT: You know a lot of them. And so, Robert the Bruce was crowned in a city after a battle called Bannockburn, and that battle was right next to a city called Sterling which represents silver. So, he was crowned, coronated, in the city of silver. This is the place that today, many believe, that was likely the location of a real Arthur's court. They found the roundtable, all of this stuff is still there, and you can look it up when you look up online. But actually, I believe it's not only this actual thing, probably, but a metaphorical thing. It represents this return, the sword, this Celtic cross to mankind getting knowledge of his, her destiny, her story, air story, and how we're going through the cycle of time and everything we're experiencing. Was Hercules a bad guy? I mean, you don't really see him. He may be boastful. When you go to the Great Pyramid and Dolores Cannon said this. 10 years ago, she died. And someone sent me a video of her, and I'm amazed at her truth and honesty, how she speaks. It's kind of remarkable. And if you haven't watched Dolores Cannon, I highly, highly recommend it. What she said was that certain things, of course, she was a hypnotist who would basically listen to these regressions, that she would do on people. And then she would record these regressions. And so it was a very different way of her getting channeled information. And she said, certain things were hidden in the walls of the pyramids, that the symbols had to match. That at a certain time, people would come along, and they would miss all the stuff that's hidden on the walls in the pyramids. But one day, someone would be able to see those things on the walls of the pyramids, and use them for our day. Because knowledge is pertinent to our day. It was left in a higher dimension. So, my first experience in the Great Pyramid was profound. When I went back, I discovered this alpha omega on the rim of the sarcophagus. Then we started seeing every time we went, I've spent 14 nights inside the Great Pyramid now. Every time I've gone, more and more is found every time. And guess what the story is on the walls. It's the story of Orion, which is also another way of looking at the story of Hercules, going through this journey of labors, of death and reincarnation. The Alpha, the Omega represents the Apis bull and the Hathor, which the Apis has to ultimately sacrifice himself to merge back into the Hathor. And, everything that is oriented around that pyramid, and all three pyramids actually is telling these stories on the walls. One of the walls has Artemis shooting an arrow right at a very large thunderbird, which is the representation of a boastful Orion. Because Orion is in the Taurus constellation. I think what's coming in now that's totally new. It's not new, it's just the cycle being new. It’s the 13th Zodiac, the 13th Zodiac is Ophiuchus. It's when Orion actually gets control of his Kundalini, his snake, and he's able to transcend beyond this notion of conquering because he chooses love. And in that process, gets to the philosopher's stone. So, this Ophiuchus and the Temple of Kom Ombo in Egypt along the Nile is the crocodile temple. And that crocodile Temple is the temple of Ophiuchus. And you'll see, and also the other name for Ophiuchus is Asclepius. The rod of Asclepius. The single staff with the snake going up it. COVID has now been found to have not been related to bats at all. In fact, this was found early in the COVID process. It was actually two snakes. One was a king cobra, snake venom, like legit snake venom. Two snakes, a king cobra, and an Asian asp. That venom was merged into an airborne virus that we called COVID-19. Now, isn't it funny that corona means crown. The crown virus was started by two snakes.
MATIAS: Start the world into meditation.
ROBERT: And the Ida, and the Pingala, and the Sushumna. The Sushumna is the sword.
MATIAS: It was right in the year where the magnetical North Pole and the physical North Pole found each other for the first time in a long, long period of time. It was right in between March and August 2020.
AUBREY: And awakened so many people to find their own power, to go deep within and find their own Excalibur. So, all of these things, of course, the tragedy of COVID is still playing out in countless ways, economically, socially, internally in the physical health of people, the corruption that was surrounded at this moment. But again, another great tragedy that we cry the tears for, and will continue to cry the tears for as this unfolds. But then, beholding the possibility of the beauty that can come from this, the exposure of, the corruption, darkness, confusion, delusion, that surrounded it, and the revelation, revealing of those dark forces, which seek to use something to manipulate control, for greed, for power. And so here we are in the midst of another tragedy, and another possibility that doesn't bypass the tragedy, but can help us look for the spark in this, and whatever is to come. So, I just want to thank you guys for coming together, for being here at this summit and for having this podcast. Always a mind blowing experience when I get to talk to either one of you, but to get to talk to both of you at the same time, that's a real treat that I hope all the listeners and everybody appreciate it as much as me. So, thank you, brothers.
ROBERT: Thank you.
MATIAS: Thank you.
AUBREY: Yeah, for sure. And thank you, everybody, for listening. We love you guys. And we'll see you next time.