As a society, we’ve become aversive to the title of Guru, and I think for good cause. But this week’s podcast guest, Gurudev Sri Sri Ravishankar, holds a presence and an essence about him that, in my mind, makes him worthy of such a title. Gurudev Sri Sri Ravishankar is a global humanitarian, spiritual leader, and peace envoy, who has been teaching breath-based meditation techniques for more than 40 years. In this conversation, we talk about the differences between spirituality and religion, the power of wonder, what true tolerance and forgiveness looks like, as well as a Q&A with the live audience that was present as we were recording this. You can learn more about Gurudev Sri Sri Ravishankar at https://www.srisriravishankar.org/.

AUBREY: We've become somewhat allergic to the title guru, and I think for good cause. But Gurudev Sri Sri Ravi Shankar really holds a presence and an essence about him, that in my mind makes him worthy of such a title. And I get to drop in with him live on stage, and just share a little bit from our own hearts and our own minds, and then receive some questions from the audience. So, it's my pleasure to bring you guys this podcast with Gurudev Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.

Starts after intro at 1:59
AUBREY: So good to see you again.
GURUDEV: Somehow Dallas is pulling me back. This is the third time I have come to Texas.
AUBREY: There's a draw to Austin, Texas.
GURUDEV: Absolutely.
AUBREY: It's strong. One of these things that's drawing forward now in the world is this feeling that we're getting back our connection to God. And there's many stories and many different traditions and ways that teach us how to understand God. But then there's the personal connection that we have to God. And so, the first question I wanted to ask you and talk to you about is, what is your personal relationship to God? And how does that personal relationship move through the stories of your culture, and the ideas, and archetypes of your culture and your tradition?
GURUDEV: God is always a bit personal. Like, love. Love is personal. You can't say, oh, there is a public love, right? Love is your very personal feeling experience. So is also God. God, we think, is someone up there to whom we have to connect. I don't prescribe to that idea. I see if there is something by which we are all made up of, that someone Burnham of the whole creation, that's what I perceive as God. Like the space around us. Can you ever be outside the space? Almost impossible, impossible. Wherever you go, space is there, right? Now, feeling that is something that one has to cultivate. Like air is everywhere, but when you sit near the fan, you can feel it more. So, through meditation, you can feel that love, feel God, who is within you all the time.
AUBREY: It sounded like from the introduction that you started feeling God very young, that you were always connected to the God that you could feel, the God that, it's a very funny thing when people ask, "Do you believe in God?" I say, "What do you mean do I believe? I know. I know. I feel God." And it seems like you also had that experience of feeling God for your whole life.
GURUDEV: You only believe what you don't know.
AUBREY: You only believe what you don't know. Yeah. So, as you start to apply words, and stories, and archetypes to this feeling that we have, the feeling that we can all feel if we get real quiet and we listen to our heart, how have the stories of your culture helped you understand the divine?
GURUDEV: I think spirituality moves beyond cultures. Culture is limited to our belief system, our food, the way we dress, language, music, and all those stuff. But spirituality is something which is beyond religion, which unites people of all religions. It is a pure experience of existence. And that is the same for everybody.
AUBREY: Yes, I agree, it is the same. And then our mind, though. Our mind likes to think in stories, likes to have ways that we can perceive with the mind. And so, beyond, and I know I'm asking in many different ways, but beyond just the feeling and the knowing and the universality of the truth of God, how have some stories that you've carried, do you still carry any stories that are helpful for you? Like Brahman, Shiva, or any stories that really help you understand the divine?
GURUDEV: There aren't many stories, upanishads there are stories. For example, a small child, a boy, comes in, asks his father, "Dad, what is God like?" Have you heard this story? So, a boy asked, "What is God like?" And the father takes the boy outside the home, and he says, "Look, what was here before this house was built?" And the boy says, "Space." And he says, "Where this house stand now?" He said, “In the space”. When the house is removed, it's destroyed. What will remain is that space. He said, "God is that space in which everything is." Isn't that a beautiful story?
AUBREY: That's a beautiful story.
GURUDEV: Understand that there is something that is indestructible, that remains solid, and that's God. There is another story similar to that. Okay, boy comes in, another boy comes in, asks his teacher, "Tell me the greatest." And the teacher said the highest is food, because everything grows by food, sustained by food, and everything becomes food for something else, right? So, once we are gone, this body becomes food for many other things, creatures. So, the boy just goes, and then he contemplates on it, says, "No, this is not the highest thing." He comes back, and again asks the teacher, "Teacher, tell me what is the highest?" Then he says, the prana, the life force. Because everything is created by lifeforce, sustained by lifeforce and will dissolve into lifeforce. Prana, the life energy. The boy goes, contemplates on the experiences and comes back again. "What is the highest?" Then he says the mind. It's the mind of consciousness that is responsible. Then again, he comes for the fourth time. By the time the boy matured quite a bit. And he says, "What is the..." Then he said, consciousness, the wisdom in the consciousnesses is the highest. And after mulling on that, he never comes and says, "Teacher, you said the wrong thing to me." No, he knows that these are the step one goals one has to go through. Because our concept will remain a concept if it is not in our experience. The teacher wants a child to have to completely experience every step, and know the truth about it, and know the limitations about everything. Mind has its limitations and not a chance limitation. Finally, when the boy comes, the teacher says, "The highest is bliss. Ananda”. The bliss is Brahman, because everything is born out of bliss. It's sustained in bliss and dissolves back into bliss. Now, once he knows what bliss is, there is no question. All the questions dissolve. Then they simply smile at each other and enjoy. The question turns into wonder. You know, in question you want to know. But in wonder, you're simply there, right?
AUBREY: Mm-hmm.
GURUDEV: Wonder is a question for which you are not looking for an answer. And if you notice something very important, very astonishing, the physiologists say that the question and misery comes from the same part of the brain. Whereas wonder is in the frontal lobe, question goes to the backside. That's why when people are miserable, then they're like, "Why is misery to me? Why me?" Nobody asks, why am I so happy? We take it for granted when we are happy, everything is okay. We don't see, "Why am I so happy?" Nobody asks.
AUBREY: Beautiful answer. So, as we look out with many of the challenges in the world, and for those of us who really explore the mystery of God, there are some challenging elements, some forces that seem opposed to life force on one level, at least. The forces that look for war, and control, and numbness, and the degradation of our human sovereignty and our beauty and our bliss. And, it seems like there are forces that are trying to just quiet the force of life, the force of God. What do you think about when you think about those forces? What's your relationship to the forces that seem to be in opposition to God, to life, to love, to bliss, to consciousness?
GURUDEV: Only two things. One is stress and another is ignorance. A person who is dressed engages in violent activity. And one who is ignorant, one who doesn't know that to meet reality, that we are all one. There's one love, one consciousness, which permeates everywhere. This knowledge is missing. When this ignorance is there, that ignorance causes more fear. And the perceived threat is the cause of all problems. If today there is war between Ukraine and Russia, they both think each one is the threat to each other, their existence. And so, there is war. And so, when there's a perceived threat, survival is the natural instinct. You want to survive. So, to survive, you want to attack. And this is so unfortunate, that lack of knowledge, lack of wisdom, I think, is the cause of suffering for humanity.
AUBREY: It seems implied in that answer, that the reconnection to the felt experience of God, to know that everywhere you fall, you fall in God's arms, you can't fall outside. That feeling, that knowing that everybody is participating in that field of God, that seems to be what is deeply missing the most from our world. Not everybody but for many people, and if that can be transmitted in a way. I know you've been working your whole life to transmit that, but it feels like the whole world would be acting in a very different way.
GURUDEV: Prejudice is one thing. There's been prejudice in the world when it comes to wisdom, when it comes to knowledge. I often ask people the same question, for the last 42 years I've been asking. See, when it comes to food, we accept food from every part of the world. By eating Danish cookies, we don't become Danish. We eat Chinese food, we eat pasta and pizza from Italy basically, and then we accept food from every part of the world. Gulab jamun and samosa are quite popular. So, while we accept food from every part of the world, music from every part of the world. See now, the Nattu Nattu Oscar Award, many people don't even know what Naatu Naatu means. So, music we accept from every part of the world. But when it comes to wisdom, there seems to be some block. Because we fear, oh, maybe I will be angry, I will be upsetting my God if I accept some other knowledge, or my way's the only way, every other way leads to hell. This sort of fear about the other has been implanted in our culture, in our society. That's one reason that we have become more fundamental, a fanatic image. The cause of terrorism I would say is lack of wider spectrum of knowledge. And you think only my way I can reach God, all other ways will take you to hell, then you create hell for others. You see? That type of lack of understanding, of wisdom. That's why I say, every child should know a little bit about all the different wisdoms in the world. We have 10 major faiths in the world. You should know a little bit about Buddhism, a little bit about Christianity, a little bit about Islam, a little bit about the Vedic ancient Hindu culture, a little bit about Taoism, a little bit about Shintoism. This will make one's life much richer, and you will see there is an underlying current between all that. And whatever everybody says, well, the essence of it all, love. The essence of it all is peace and accept diversity. You celebrate diversity. I think this wisdom is essential on the religious, spiritual, and political, and social field. We should wake up and see the borders are man made. In this lifetime, we are on this side of the border. Who knows in the next slide that you will be born on the other side of the border. Life is eternal. That broad mindedness, seeing the whole world as one family will make a big difference. See, the Corona has almost demolished the concept of mind. A virus which you don't even see has spread throughout the world, right? See, the subtler you go, you can't own it, own things. I cannot say this is my air, nobody can breathe into my... So, air is permeating, and settling in the space. And so, we are all connected in some way or another. This awakeness can bring down many of the conflicts in the world.
AUBREY: Yes. You said that there have been ideas and stories of separation, between my ideas, my stories and your stories, my God and your God. And this has been implanted in culture. It's been used in politics to create this kind of tribal identity, and create a lot of anger, and a lot of passion. When you see those people, and those forces who are acting in that way, what do you think is the best way to respond when you recognize that there's somebody who's pushing something that's pushing people apart? How do you respond to those divisive elements?
GURUDEV: First of all, if you think there are negative forces, what is your natural tendency, you want to stay away from them, right? But when you see them as patients, as people who are not well, who are sick, and the thought process, their mind is all distorted, then you will reach out to them and see how you can create the communication. You see? So, I never brand anybody as a bad person, because no child is born on this planet being an evil child. Every child who's come to this planet has come as a bundle of joy. Do you all agree? Any child, anywhere in the world, you see, they've come here as beautiful kids. And due to circumstances, due to lack of opportunity to know better, to communicate better, and some hurt, some wounds they carry in their hearts, in their mind, their actions are bad. And that is the sense of incarceration. Putting someone behind the bar is not because they did something wrong, and angry towards them, but with compassion for them to recuperate.
AUBREY: Yeah.
GURUDEV: To get back to themselves. They're not good, they're sick in their actions, so they tire and rest well, meditate, and you will become a better person. I have seen this happening over and over and again. I want to mention, in Denmark, I went to Denmark after eight long years of gap last September. And I addressed about 6,000 ex-militants. They were all gang members, very tall, big. And after, we have a program to till transfers. There was not one dry eye in the meeting. They were all so good and so grateful. They said, "Why didn't we have this knowledge before? You know, we have caused pain to so many families." Some said, "You know, I have shot many people down, but we were never told about this. We never saw that there is so much love and care and concern in humanity." Then they were asking, "Will our wrongdoings be ever forgiven?" I said, "Yes. You have to realize you're not the same person. You're different." So, I told them a small story of Lord Buddha.
AUBREY: I would love to hear this story.
GURUDEV: Is it story time?
AUBREY: Story time.
GURUDEV: Lord Buddha was giving servants and his congregation. Thousands would come and sit. It was in India. India was the pinnacle of intellectual glory those days, 2,500 years ago. So, they were all sitting. And then one gentleman came. He was furious, and got so angry, and he just stood in front of Buddha, and he spat on him. The entire crowd was stunned, and some people tried to rise, and psych them. And then this man in a little while... But there was no reaction from Buddha's side. He was calm and serene. He was smiling. So, this gentleman went away. The thing was, his son, he had three sons, and three of them started following Buddha's meditation. They were somehow not interested in pursuing the father's business, so that made him angry. But when he went back home, suddenly something dawned on him, that so far, nobody was there who did not react to what he did. For the first time, he experienced somebody who did not react, and the calming energy just hit him. And he couldn't sleep the whole night. Next day, he thought I should go and ask forgiveness from this gentleman. So, he goes in front of Buddha and asks him, "Would you please forgive me for what I did yesterday? It was my problem”. Buddha said, “No, I can't forgive you." And the congregation got stunned. Lord Buddha is one who forgives everybody. Here he says, no, I can't forgive you. What do you think? Is it shocking for you? Someone is repenting on what he did, and Buddha says, "No, I can't forgive you." Buddha said, "You know, the person who spat and the person on whom you spat are no longer here. Life is like a river where there is fresh water every moment. So, if I ever meet the person on whom you spat, I will tell him to forgive you." So, you are new, I am new, let's move on. Let's be in the present moment. Every moment, life is new. This is what wisdom brings to us. I would add one more thing to that. Life is both ancient and new. Like a river. Mississippi River is ancient, billions of years old, but every moment the water there is new. So, we're all very ancient, we're all connected from millions of years, but we are very new.
AUBREY: Reminds me of my favorite quote from Heraclitus. And he said, no person steps in the same river twice, because it's not the same river, and it's not the same person. This concept would really revolutionize the world, as with many of these concepts. And as we're looking to spread this wisdom, this love, this knowledge, this understanding out into the world, and we're trying to do our best to share this with people, one of the practices that many of us have, but maybe have lost a connection to, is the practice of prayer. Because of course, we know all the things we can do. We can podcast, and we can share social media stories, and we can tell stories, and we can express, with the presence of our being. But prayer is something that's also in some ways been forgotten by many people. There's many ways to pray. But for you, what does prayer mean? And what is the importance of prayer in these times?
GURUDEV: Prayer happens on two occasions. When you're utterly helpless, when you recognize your helplessness, and when you want something. Then you pray, right? When it happens. You know, I'm so thirsty, I'm in a desert. Please, can you give me a glass of water? It's very genuine. That asking that comes from deep inside, which out of helplessness, it comes. Second, when you're so grateful for what you have. Gratefulness. You're saved, and you say, I'm so grateful I'm saved. I'm so grateful. So, when you recollect what you have, whatever you have received, you feel grateful. So, then prayer happens. Prayer is not a set word that you try to say it again and again, or to please God. It's just recognizing the gratefulness in life, and expressing the gratefulness, the desperateness that we have, wanting something. Again, prayer is asking, God please give me this, will you give me that, will you give me? Saying something. Meditation is telling God, I am here. What is it you want to tell me? I'm here to listen to you." So, they complement each other. Meditation will make you more grateful, and so prayer arises. And if you are prayerful, and you are grateful, meditation happens to you. One after the other.
AUBREY: That's so beautiful. All right, well we have some beautiful people here in the audience who are going to ask some questions, and come up. And I just--
GURUDEV: So, I'm noticing all beautiful people out here. Okay, go ahead.
AUBREY: This is the truth. All right, so all beautiful people, but one at a time.
GURUDEV: One at a time.
AUBREY: One at a time, all beautiful people. If you'd like to ask a question.
Q: What do you do with children to help them connect to their psychic abilities?
GURUDEV: Yeah, intuition process. We teach them for a few days for kids and make them practice and it works. The whole philosophy is when the mind is free from cravings and aversions, it is in touch with the self very easily. And so, it's in contact with the universal mind. So, very quickly, it can catch and can see things.
Q: I'm wondering why we focus primarily just on the children up to age 18 and not really adults. I've heard that children that you work with, when they're blindfolded, someone can come to he room and pick up a book, and then they point to that book--
GURUDEV: Yeah, yeah, they can do all that. With adult science, I'm a little bit concerned about Las Vegas and the casinos. We are opening for adults as well. It takes a little longer time for adults than children. Children happen in no time. But adults, they have to get rid of all those latent impressions in the mind to feel free. Kids naturally feel very free inside. So it happens very quickly.
Q: Recently, I'm in an interesting position where I'm in meditation workshops and the environment is Web3. These are people who will spend a lot of time on their computer. I've been really working with companies, and the boss says, "All of you have to go to listen to a meditation workshop now." I want to encourage them to adopt a meditation practice and to continue on. I was just wondering if you had any tips or advice that I can share with these people, these workshops to encourage them to adopt a meditation practice. If you have anything to share with me to share with them.
GURUDEV: Yeah, you're doing a very good job, but they should continue to encourage people to do meditation. Meditation is effortless. Today, there is a lot of talk about mindfulness, because many people think meditation is all religious or spiritual. So, to sanitize, so-called sanitize, we use the word sanitize. We want to sanitize it of all other belief systems, its spirituality. But I say if it is too much sanitized, it loses its originality, its main purpose, and its main energy. So, from ages, people have been meditating. And so, we need to honor that, honor the original meditation of sages and rishis who have done that.
Q: The question that I have is, the origin of your knowing, the origin of illusion, the idea that any one human being can somehow correct another human being to guide him, to control him, causes them to follow orders, causes them to obey, causing them to confuse obedience with what's right. So, my question is, where do you think this illusion of the world comes from?
GURUDEV: Where is the origin of illusion? Is that what you're asking? Now, before I answer this question, I would like you to tell me, which is the beginning point of a tennis ball? See, when we think in a linear fashion, we always think of beginning and end somewhere. But when you take a break from that, and look at a spherical thing, in a sphere, there is no beginning and there is no end. Every point is a beginning and every point is an end. For example, a mirage. Mirage is an appearance. If you say, when did the mirage begin? What would you say? It doesn't begin. A mirage is a mirage. It is appearing like that, but it is not there. In a mirage, you see water on the street. It is appearing, but it is not, there is no water there. So, when did the mirage happen? No, there's no answer for that.
Q: The beginning from my understanding was the moment I started to believe. The end of the illusion of knowing is the moment I stop believing.
GURUDEV: It's the beginning and end of your perception. But not the mirage there. Yeah, I can see. My perception began, and my perception ended. It changes. My perception keeps changing. I see the sun setting, and the sun rising. It is my perception. Sun never sets and never rises. That's a fact.
Q: Can you talk about the World Culture Festival that's coming up?
GURUDEV: This is the fourth time we'll be having a World Cultural Festival. You know, bring people from all different cultures on one platform. So, it's not just some celebrities that are coming and performing and what. It's the common people. The budding artists will get a stage to exhibit their art. That's the beauty in this. Of course there'll be some celebrities also. But mainly it will be young people coming and dancing and singing, celebrating life. See, the motto of art of living is to make life a celebration, to see life from a broader perspective. We're not going to be here forever. The time we are here, we should make life a celebration. What you say? Don’t you think? Why to make the point of contention so much, so hard to create tension in society, feeling the differences, and letting go all those walls, come down and come together, and sharing a meal with everybody. Different cuisines will be there. Food from all different parts of the world. Music and dance from every part of the world. And on top of it, meditations. I would say three M's can bring people together. Meditation, meals and music. And that's the Word Culture Fest. And there is WWW. That is, Washington welcomes the world there. And so, we thought we'll create more positive vibrations, more positive energy, which is so much needed now post-COVID. You must have heard one of the causes of violence is isolation. Did you hear about that? Mental health is such a big issue. Meditation and celebration can help people come out of the mental health crisis. That's a very important thing I felt we have to do now. So, we thought in Washington DC, let's do it to bring that positive vibrations. What do you think? I would like all of you to come and join. Let's make the world a better place. You see, there are 2.9 mass shootings per day in this country. This somehow I cannot do justice. We don't want to leave this work in this state for the anger generation. Doesn't it? Don't you think so? We want a safe and secure world. We have to see the violence goes down. The motto of the festival is to see a violence-free society, stress-free society, and a healthy and happy society. I hope we all share the same dream, right? We all want to see everyone happy, right? So, let's work together on this.
AUBREY: It seems that both of those things, meditation which can connect you to the field of belonging where you don't feel isolated anymore, because you're connected to everything. And celebration where you get to see the connection with all of the people that you're celebrating with. It's the same thing just in different forms.
GURUDEV: Absolutely.
AUBREY: Yeah.
GURUDEV: One last question. Yeah.
Q: I wanted to ask, we are living in a very interesting age today. We are blessed with amazing spiritual leaders like you. A lot of people who are so interested in spirituality as they are here today, while we also have a lot of people who don't understand this at all. What can we do to bring the ascent of spirituality back into the world in a more exponential way?
GURUDEV: You know, 42 years back, when I started traveling around the world, when I came to America, except in California, some parts of California, many parts of this country and Europe, they thought meditation yoga is not for normal people. It's for someone out there. Someone must be cuckoo. It was not taught to be a mainstream narration. Even in India it's like that. And people would think, oh, meditation yoga, you must be going to Himalayas or going into Allahabad. But today, I tell you, it has changed. If you see even BMW and Volkswagen, all their advertisements, you see someone sitting in a lotus pose as a symbol of relaxation, as being comfort. So, in that comfort, today has been associated with meditation. And that is what it is. Meditation is to help you to behave better in society, to think better, to be happy in life. It's not to run away from life. Meditation is not negation of life, it is embracing life. This knowledge is today percolated. So, almost one third of humanity today are practicing yoga and meditation. One third of humanity. 2.5 billion people, or 3 billion people are practicing today. So, the world has changed. And we are out of Living Breath Workshop is in 108 universities in this country alone. And in India, it is part of the curriculum. If you want to go to engineering college, it is in the induction program. In the first year itself, everyone has to go through. So, world over recognant, today, in the news, they have said New York City has made it compulsory for all school children. Have you heard about it? In New York City, they have introduced all kids in the school must do the breathing technique. They say mindfulness breathing. Breathing technique. Because it helps kids. It helps kids to be less aggressive, and it helps people to get out of depression. Why would something that helps you to be happier not be used? Yeah. Thank you.
AUBREY: Thank you. Before we finish here, I've had the pleasure of asking you many questions and receiving many beautiful answers from your wisdom. And I want to just offer you the opportunity to return the favor, and for me to have the honor of receiving one question from you, to me.
GURUDEV: That's a tough one. I have no question. Other than asking, how are you? Are you happy? But I already see that you're happy.
AUBREY: It's true. It's true. I'm happier every day. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. And thank you everybody for coming out.