What is the wisdom we can recover from ancient civilizations and mystical teachings that could help us understand how to navigate this time of transition? What would the world be like if humanity's ancient wisdom wasn’t suppressed for thousands of years, and ‘Empire’ hadn’t systematically installed the maladaptive software of modern cultures worldwide? Our connection to nature, time, spirit, sexuality, and the universe itself have all been manipulated over millennia to bring us to this existentially threatening moment in time. It’s time to re-remember what our ancestors knew, and re-imagine how we live. 

In this full spectrum dialogue Matias De Stefano and John Churchill share deep codes that stretch back into our ancient past - From the history of Atlantis to ancient Tibetan Buddhist wisdom–that if we re-remembered, could turn the fate of humanity into a reality where the shackles of millennia-old suppres

AUBREY: Matias, John. Wow, look at this combination.
MATIAS: Nice to meet you.
AUBREY: So, as we were outside talking, one of the things that came up was this deeper understanding of the importance of remembering our history, so that we can actually recognize the patterns and the cycles, and then make the necessary adjustments to those patterns and cycles. So, I just want to open this conversation up with a remembering of, there was a time when there was a flourishing civilization that felt like nothing could stop it.
MATIAS: Well, the idea of Atlantis with that name emerges for the Greek people. The Greek people got the stories from Egypt, and the Egyptians from the previous civilization, and that previous civilization from their ancestors that were from the Atlantic Ocean. So, I would say that most of the stories that we have today about this civilization, were described by the Greek tradition describing the idea of this civilization as if it were a magical civilization, or an utopia for their own governments. Like, they wanted to tell something to the people that we could become like that, eventually, with the perfect order, with the perfect civilization and everything. So, I think that since Greek time, with a description of that civilization, we also got a mistaken idea of what Atlantis was. Like, if it was a civilization exactly as we have today with technology, like huge technology, or, I don't know, Dubai style, with these weird constructions, and so on. But actually, from my memories, this civilization was actually not a civilization that developed towards the outside, but a civilization that developed within. And in the last period, tried to manifest everything outside because they knew that otherwise, they would forget everything. And, they would disconnect eventually.
AUBREY: Wait, so what you're saying is, the Atlanteans were focused on the inner sciences. And then in the fear of forgetting the inner sciences like we had, we started focusing on the outer exterior sciences.
MATIAS: So we don't die, so we didn't finish. This was when they understood that everything has a beginning and an end. And whatever they were building within, eventually, it would collapse, it would disappear for others to start a new cycle. So, they needed to build machines for time, they needed to build machines to remember how to connect with the interweaving of all dimensions. And, if they come back in the future, they would have the tools there to do it. That's why we don't actually find many things from that civilization, because usually archaeologists try to find, I don't know, jars or golden things, or I don't know, things that--
AUBREY: Artifacts.
MATIAS: Roads, things that would say this was a very expansive civilization, like the Romans, for example. But they actually weren't like that. They were more connected with the land, they were more related to tiny temples that were further within. And, they would create huge pyramids, but maybe they were tiny houses around, or small villages with domes. But that's it. So, most of the great civilization that we picture sometimes, it was not civilization towards the outside, to conquer. It was a civilization to understand. That's why when we connect with that civilization, we usually talk about the wisdom that they had. The last period of Atlantis was to conquer. The last period of Atlantis was--
AUBREY: So that's when it started to turn.
MATIAS: Exactly. Because they knew their time was finishing, it was ending. So, they started to get scared--
AUBREY: How did they know?
MATIAS: Cycles.
AUBREY: They were connected.
MATIAS: Stars, the planet. They understood in the same way as you have spring, summer, autumn, winter, they knew that whatever blossoms in spring, eventually will die in autumn. But for a civilization, it takes maybe 2,000 years. So they understood the cycles of everything. They knew exactly in 2,400 years our civilization will turn off for others to rise. We need to get ready for that moment so we can transcend and not be forgotten.
AUBREY: So, I'm trying to understand. Then what was the motive for them to turn to conquest? Why did they think that conquest would be their salvation?
MATIAS: Because there were many different powers in the civilization. They didn't have a king, or a major priest or something like that. They had many layers of governments, and they started to disagree on how the power should be kept going. The high priest, they said, well, we should die and be remembered in 2000 years. The king with the families said, we need to bring this message to other cultures, so they can remember us, and we can create communities all over the world. So, in case something happens to us, other ones will remember through blood. The military said, they don't want to do that, so we have to force them to do that. We have to force them. So they started to use the technology of the pyramids as a way to control the others. They started to use the inner power for the outer power. That's how the civilization entered a conflict within itself. So the wise people left Atlantis and went to the Nile or to Mexico. Others just decided to get lost in the mountains, in the Caucasus Mountains or Tibet, or in North America. Some others in South America. So they all spread trying to leave the power of control of the last 500 years of that civilization. Usually, that's the moment that most of the people remember as a trauma, of that civilization. Like oh, yeah, Atlantis was a civilization that tried to control everyone, and they were warriors, and powerful, and they wanted to conquer and they started a war with Lemuria. This moment of the trauma was more heavier than the past 5,000 years of that civilization. That actually was a civilization that was designed to the within. As I said, that's why people don't usually find daily life things because they knew that it was all essential, so they wouldn't keep anything. They would just restore everything to nature until the last period. The only things that they actually built to be remembered were the huge structures that were used as a technology. So that was the most important thing for them, because in that way, they would be remembered. Not as a civilization, they would be born again, and they could use it again.
AUBREY: It's because they had the understanding of their reincarnation, the fact that they were going to keep coming back. And so they started to plan for their future reincarnation.
MATIAS: For at least 24,000 years. Now the presidents make a plan for four years. We did a plan for 24,000.
AUBREY: When Matias talks about this, obviously, you've been deeply enmeshed in, of course, your own tradition, the Buddhist tradition, but also the ancient history of our civilization. So, as he describes this, what does that evoke from you, John?
JOHN: Well, I'm sitting here and just reflecting on how we're at a similar moment in the cycle, and the similar squabbling that's happening. No doubt there's various people in government who are aware of these cycles, but these cycles... Our civilization has been so disconnected from the sacred world. We're so separated that we're not aware of these cycles. So, if you think of the effect of Christianity on the last 2,000 years of separating ourselves from the sacred and putting the sacred elsewhere, so that we're not aware, we're not prepared, we're not ready, we don't know what time it is. And then as far as I'm aware, those in government who are aware of what time it is, well, some of them are like, "We're going to just dig a hole." There's the we're-going-to-dig-a-hole in the ground approach.
AUBREY: Possibly under the Denver Airport, possibly not.
JOHN: Yeah, but I mean, you seal those underground cities in Turkey, right? I mean, they were built for--
AUBREY: Something.
JOHN: For something. So, the first thing I'm aware of is just the degree of poverty of our civilization, just in terms of being so disconnected from the cycles, even of the season, let alone the cycles of the planet, let alone a 12,000 solar micro nova cycle. We're just so deeply disconnected from the sacred in that way. The next reflection is, well, in order to understand cosmology, it isn't just about these cosmological cycles, it's also about a deeper appreciation of Gaia, of our planet, and of our reincarnator process that is a part of our planet's evolutionary pulse. If you appreciate that your civilization is going to fall, but you understand that you reincarnate not just individually, but we reincarnate. And it's not anthropocentric, that is a function of a larger organism that's pulsing and growing, which is the Ma herself, right? Our mother. So, I think the first thing, what speaks is how deeply disoriented. We are completely disoriented, and not ready for any kind of cyclic transformation, even spiritually. The fact that in order for something to be born, something has to die. And in order to live, you have to be okay with death. So, the very fact that we've avoided this history, we've avoided the possibility that we will die as a collective means that we don't live either. We're kind of, we're numbed. So, these are the things that are coming up.
AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, thinking about the cycles, the similarities and differences, 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. That's roughly 500 years ago. And that is not what actually marks the Empire, because we had the Empire far before that. I think the Egyptians took some empirical... The forces of the Empire, and this desire to conquer and conquest, that existed before in limited areas. But it really blossomed when that ship technology came, and people could come and start colonizing the Americas and colonizing Australia, and all of the different indigenous peoples who had lived in the right relation with the land. So, in some ways, there was an earlier appearance of the Empire in our story of this 12,000 years. It happened earlier, in some places. Of course, the Greco Roman Empires, all the Persian empires, all the Egyptian empires, all of the empires. Then also, there were huge swaths of land that were basically untouched, potentially helped, seeded also by Atlantean wisdom that came, and were able to live in connection where they could speak to the rocks, and the trees, and the wind, and everything was sentient and alive. So, it's similar in a way that this last 500 years, there's been a quickening where the Empire force has spread over the world, and we're trying to control everything now in this final, we're going to die, we need to control everything. Then with that is an opportunity to do something different. Potentially change the way that this transition, some transition is going to happen, but feels like we have the opportunity to navigate how that transition happens.
MATIAS: Yeah. We, as humans, started to expand and try to control others because of our fear of death. We wanted to survive because we had no idea what would happen after. So, as any cell or as any organism, you are trying to eat as much as you can to stay the longest alive as you can. When you feel that there's a threat, better first, before you get attacked, you have to attack in order to protect your survival. So, this created the idea of expansion constantly, and the idea of empires trying to control others in order to survive for longer. This disconnected us from the very truth which was, that actually, expansion could be done from within. So, some people, some of these first cultures, started to wonder what would happen if instead of expanding outside, we'll be expanding within. That expansion takes the idea that we actually never die. It was not something spiritual at the beginning. It was just by looking at how a flower dies, but next year the tree will blossom again. So, what if we do the same? What if when we die, we will blossom again. And we are just flowers in a tree but we cannot see the branches. So, the idea of dying and rebirth in nature as the plants were growing and flourishing, and then dying and flourishing again, started to create other civilizations that didn't fear death. And when you don't fear death, you don't fear survival. So, you don't need to survive. So you stop conquering, so you stop fighting for resources, because you're not afraid of what is happening because it doesn't matter if you die, you will come back in different ways to keep on going. So, what they tried to do was, we have to understand the tree. So, when we come back, we know where the branches are. So they started to expand through the world not to conquer the world, but to know where the flowers are. And we call it portals, we call it the grid, the network. So, they started to find the mountains, there were flowers, the valleys that were flowers. So, we went to those places and we started to settle there with this idea of we are not going to die, but at least we know where we could blossom again. And they started to build the pyramids there so they could create bridges between dimensions. So, when they die in another dimension, the skies, the precession of equinoxes will bring us back. So, they saw the tree of life, and they started to design the tree of life. That's the greatest moment of that civilization. It's something that we all have within. But as we were saying, we don't know today, where's the north. Most of the people don't know where the north is. So, that's why we lost the north. We don't know where we're going. Until we created the compass, when we created the compass, we forgot where the north is, because we forgot how to get in touch with the planet. So, we started to create tools outside to make it easier for us but we stopped using our own tool. So we cannot feel the stones. Not because the stones talk, but because they vibrate. They vibrate with the rhythm of the hurts of the planet. So when you feel the feeling of the vibration of the stones, you say, "Oh, they're talking," because you're feeling connected to that, or just by seeing where the birds are flying, you will know where the North is. These kinds of things, not knowing when to go to sleep, when to wake up, the first cycle which is a day, and then not knowing what an equinox is, or what a solstice is, disconnects us completely from this subtle perception of eternity. So, we are constantly thinking, okay, I have to go to sleep, because tomorrow I have to do stuff. But no, it's an important moment to go to sleep because you die. Every time that you go to sleep, you're dying. Every time that you breathe, you're dying, your cells are dying. So, that is the thing that we lost, that connectivity of eternity, of constantly dying and constantly rebirthing. That's why instead of breathing, we try to survive, like... So we have to breathe, because I have to take all the oxygen, all the food, all the things that I need in order to survive instead of just knowing I will die anyway.
AUBREY: Yeah. It seems that there's also the disconnection from the natural world and these beliefs in reincarnation, and all of the things that we're talking about. They fuel the forces of the Empire for more conquest. They work together. Because the less you are connected, and the less you believe in reincarnation, the more justification you have for your conquest. And so, they work together in this kind of nefarious pact in a way, like they're just allies--
JOHN: The great forgetting, there's a forgetting in the past, and then there's also the interdimensional forgetting, and there must be a relationship between those two processes that we've lost. In those times, we understood that the center of civilization wasn't actually in matter, it was actually in the subtle. That sacred world, the subtle, still matter, right? It's just a little less coarse. But if you think of everything that we're doing in western civilization, what the Rosicrucians called the invisible college, we could have sacred chemistry, physics, architecture, medicine. If we look at the degree of how evolved our civilization is and then say, well, what would it take to bring it up to speed? I think it's important for us to feel and know that that already exists. Meaning, where we've come from, like we're a flower into time and matter from a deeper center, a deeper center of civilization and culture. When we talk about the sacred world, the ancestral realms, this is real, it's real. It's not just a messy kind of flowing, that actually the cosmos has an anatomy and physiology. Our planet has anatomy and physiology, and that civilizations are part of that process. And that there is a harvesting process of what happens when we learn and matter. But, so much of it actually happens in the subtle. That isn't to negate the beauty of this kind of realm. But it's really important for us to remember the cosmology that we lived in. It's the loss of that cosmology because if you lose that cosmology, then you lose even the idea that there's somewhere to connect to. I have students who are scientists, and at night, when they're in a lucid dream state, they go to a classroom, and they're learning about these new technologies. Now that happens in another civilizational state, it's subtle. So, the loss of our connection to an understanding of the continuity of civilization being not just on the physical, but in other dimensions, once we lose that, then we are... And we even lose that understanding spiritually, because then you can still have a sense that you're on a path but we lose the community and the civilization that we are actually a part of. That even though it isn't fully manifested here, all the work that we've done over these lifetimes, all the work our ancestors have done isn't lost. And then there's another cycle.
AUBREY: Available for download. Go to your spiritual app store. It's available for download all of the wisdom that's been captured.
JOHN: That's right.
MATIAS: Just like the seeds in the fruit, in a tree. The seeds can be reproduced, reproduced, and they will keep all the wisdom of the tree before. So, we are constant seeds of this tree. So eventually we will grow, and we will have the same information. So it's alive all the time.
AUBREY: There's two things that are coming, landing for me. One is the recognition of, if I really just sit with that kind of timeless perspective of the reincarnation of self and civilization, it actually reorients the mission in this life. Because it's not just about me and my family. It is about me and my family, but it's also beyond me and my family, because my family in large is to the family of Gaia, the planet, and all of civilization, and how no matter what happens that we set up ourselves in the best way that we can for the future civilizations to come. And, do our best to ease the transition and salvage what we can here, but just feeling that I also recognize that I haven't, even though I know that to be true, haven't allowed it to fully seep into my bones and really, really get it. So, that's one thing I just wanted to reflect as moving through me. Also want to go back to this idea of... Because I think it was not true but a partial explanation for the desire for conquest and the desire for Empire, right? Based on fear, based on scarcity, based on that. But it feels like there's other forces that are at work in this beyond just survival and beyond just these even extra dimensional, extra planetary forces that are actually looking to undermine life itself, looking to control, squash, dehumanize, degrade life with a capital L, itself. And it seems like these forces have been very active and are very active now. I'm just curious, from your perspective, Matias, to talk about these forces from a cosmological standpoint. And then potentially other stories that you've heard of other star systems that decided to go one way or another way, and how these forces have kind of influenced a history that even extends further back than our own history.
MATIAS: You're talking about this galaxy, or Lucifer?
AUBREY: Well, both. Why not?
MATIAS: When we talk about the origin of the forces that makes everything collapse, and to corrode in existence--
AUBREY: Turn upside down.
MATIAS: Yeah, the first one that did that, the first creation that did that was division. We have talked about this, how the universe, in order to fall in love with itself needed to split in two. Humanizing the idea, romanticizing the idea of a particle divided in the wave. So, when the wave chose to divide itself into two different particles, we divided the universe, but in that split, a spark of light was created. That's what we call the bearer of light, which is ‘Lucus Ferus’, which is Lucifer. So, it means that from the trauma of division, light arose, but it was a trauma. So, the very moment of enlightenment in the universe, when one thing divided in two, created the most beautiful thing. But at the same moment, it creates the first trauma. So, the system of following the light, is the system that constantly divides, which is the paradox we talked once. The paradox of, as closer you get to the light, the more likely you will burn. It's because the system in order to create options to be manifested, to feel life, you need to divide many more options. So, there is a system in the universe which is the system of light that is constantly dividing something. So, every time there is a spark, there is something that has to be divided. So, when we leave that trauma, boom, I see clarity, I understand. So there is one side of the universe that is forcing us constantly to divide. The main goal of the universe was, let's divide in order to understand the link. Because when everything is one, you cannot feel the link. So, you need division in order to understand the connection. So, there's one side of the universe that says, I feel the other. There's another side of the universe that says, for you to feel it, I need to create the other, the opposite. So, as we get closer to the light, there is one system that says, it means that I have to divide you more. We call that evil, but actually is a system of division in order for you to find light. So, evil and good are just perceptions of human morality of something that in the universe is very natural, which is a wave divided into two particles. These two particles are constantly dividing into other two, another two, another two, and it creates many thousands of billions of options that creates confusion. That's what we understand as the source of evil, or the source of separation, source of conflict, polarity, duality, as something that pulls us apart from the sense of unity. But even though it was the trauma that created the path towards unity, towards understanding of why we need unity. So, it's this paradox of we need each other in order to find unity. Because we wouldn't be talking about this, if there is no conflict in the world. Why explain this, if everyone is living in peace and harmony? No, no, we wouldn't be in this quest of trying to understand better why we are here.
So, for other worlds, it's different because they are not mammals, for example, so they don't have this relationship with mom and dad. They don't have this relationship. Also, for example, in Sirius, there are some planets that only have two hours of night, let's say two hours. There are two suns. So, usually you have two sunrises, two sunsets, very short. So, it means that they evolved in a way that they don't need much sleep. So, they're there all the time. This means that as more stars are closer to you, less confusion. They didn't need to go through the trauma of separation from mom and dad, the moon and sun, the night and the light. It was not a biological design like that, because the structure of their solar system was different. So, for every planet, it's completely different, the path of what is evil and what is good. But everyone understands, when we reach a point of consciousness, we all understand that every separation is part of the creation. Every unity is part of the purpose. So that's why they are aware of civilizations in other realities, they don't interfere with our evolution because they understand that planet Earth, not humanity, planet Earth, we are part of the planet. Planet Earth is in a path of evolution according to having one sun, and one moon, having 12 hours of night, 12 of day, let's say with a cycle of 24,000 years because of the precession of the equinoxes. So they cannot force a planet that is learning, what is duality. Because that would be what happened here with Christopher Columbus coming here and saying to everyone, Jesus is the word. Maybe in the Mediterranean Sea, but here we had Ayahuasca. That was better than Jesus. But they said, no, this is better. So they imposed the truth. So, aliens wouldn't do that. Because if they reach this planet, it's because they understood how to traverse through the fifth dimension. And if they traveled through the fifth dimension, it's because they understand the system. So, they wouldn't come and force us to follow the light because it's not...
AUBREY: So, aliens aren't going to save us?
MATIAS: Oh, no.
AUBREY: I guess then it's almost impossible to see out of the prism of... Speaking of Ayahuasca, I had a very deep Ayahuasca journey, where I understood that the God that I call God, which is good, God and good. It is our God actually, in a way. Our planet's god, and that there were actually other conceptions of God that could exist, and those gods could have different ideas. It's interesting to think about. I just recently rewatched the movie "Dune". Have you ever seen the movie "Dune", Matias? It seems pretty clear from our God's perspective, goodness perspective, there's the Fremen and then there's the Harkonnens. Fremen, good. Harkonnens, fuck that. Want no fucking parts of that. Then there's the other civilizations that are somewhere in between trying to find the balance where the protagonist of the story comes from. I forget what that civilization is called. But ultimately, I guess it would be fair to say that from the Harkonnens system and the Harkonnens god system of what is good, maybe they're killing it. You know what I mean?
JOHN: They're killing something.
AUBREY: But then then as they interfere, the problem is when they interfere with a world like the Fremens, that's what's fucked up.
MATIAS: That's the collapse.
AUBREY: That's what's fucked up. Because they're imposing their good and bad onto a place where their imposition is clearly bad. So, that's when you start to cross those ideas. But it's difficult. It's such a stretch to imagine different conceptions. I want to extend the good out universally, right?
JOHN: The question you had around extending good and evil out, I mean, if you think of... From one perspective, evil is what happens when trauma, when the cycle of trauma keeps going, and it's not processed. And, rather than opening and releasing and feeling, there's a process of contraction. More and more and more and more contraction. Then it gets to a point where it's so contracted that it no longer wants to feel the pain and projects that out, and then attacks what's there. So, you can think of evil as complete contraction. And of course, which is in the Buddhist tradition, this is the wheel going one way and you have the wheel going the other. So you can look at it in terms of splitting, which is one way of... Or you can look at it in terms of what direction the wheel is going. You can evolve civilization with the wheel going the wrong way. I mean, we saw with the Nazis. That wheel had kept going and kept going and kept going, you could have levels of evil that are--
AUBREY: Yeah, and clearly, I mean, that's in our God and goodness. It's not that we're creating moral relativism in our own world. Nazis are not the same as the Yawanawa brothers, who we just got to meet and witness. Not the same, not the same. They're not morally equivalent, they're different. And then it's just opening up, the way in which we extend this out through the cosmos.
JOHN: It's the same kind of cycle. So, we're referring to a cycle here related to a planet. But there would obviously be even larger cycles, where the same process that we're talking about, drama, the narrative of Earth and Atlantis happens on an even larger scale, where it isn't just planets reincarnating. It's a stellar system, but gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Same process, repeating itself, as the galactic organism, just like a planet is an organism and has a karma, so does a galaxy. So that process can... We probably would see it throughout the cosmos.
AUBREY: Right. So, then if we go from that galactic federation kind of perspective, it still seems as though there's certain things that are of the good, and certain things that are of the not good even from a larger perspective, even if you do have different stars and suns... It would seem like that to me.
MATIAS: But in the configuration, if we call it like that, it's not an organization against evil. It's neutral. So, I remember being there. I was not a very big politician there, I was just--
AUBREY: You're talking about the galactic federation and the life you remember.
MATIAS: Galactic federation, yeah. I was just a secretary of a neighborhood. Like, if they had a problem with a sewer, I was in charge of that. Nothing important.
AUBREY: Deal with some shit.
MATIAS: Exactly, yeah. But we all have kind of a public knowledge of what was happening. We were all connected somehow to know what was going on, even if we were not part of the government or something like that. So, I remember moments of... Like, for example, the gray ones, the gray people. We call it – . They are a civilization that for us, on Earth, they are the bad guys. Not good, not good at all. But they had a chair there. They were, they exchange, because for their world, their planet and their system, their solar system let's say, they accomplished to understand how that planet worked. So they accomplished a level of awareness that represented the evolution of that planet. So they weren't trying to control anybody. Their nature was to turn off the light of the planet. They needed the resources till the core of the planet. Basically, that was their nature.
AUBREY: Planets were their food.
MATIAS: Yes, but they accomplished a perfect harmony--
AUBREY: Fuck those guys.
JOHN: What you're saying is that their evolutionary path was not so much around ours, which is maybe love and wisdom, but more... So in my tradition, we talk about how different planets have different logoses. These logoses have different evolutionary typologies. So there's some logoses that evolve through power, and the personality of the planet itself. So you would imagine you could have a planet that raises a totalitarian civilization. In our mind, that's bad, but for the psychology of that planetary system, that is it, and it's complete order. Now our logos--
AUBREY: And in some ways that balanced polarity with our erotic planet.
JOHN: Exactly. Our planet, she's more of a love, wisdom--
MATIAS: She's a mother. Our planet is a mother.
AUBREY: Yeah, she's wildly erotic.
MATIAS: Their planet was not.
AUBREY: There's no big dick-slinging gray aliens--
MATIAS: The conversation that I remember, for example, they were saying, in the conversation that they had was the decision of bringing some humans to be part of the meeting. And these people said, "No way." The reason was because humans feel so much, they would hurt the magnetical feel of their bodies, and they would die of a heart attack.
AUBREY: If they caught a little piece of my Jewish anxiety. They would just burst into flames.
MATIAS: Imagine you as a Pisces going to the gray and saying, I love you, brother. Who is the evil one?
JOHN: So, really, this is about creative friction. It's like good versus evil, at least in this, it's polarity, different typologies, different evolutionary functions. That when they rub against one another, I mean, clearly we might not... Our planet seems to me, it's a lot about free will. And, there's a lot of freedom and we value that. There might be systems where that isn't the case. I think we would see that as being evil. But if you're a mantis being or if you're... I mean, if it's a different line of evolution, we have to be able to step outside and just appreciate it.
AUBREY: And that is, I mean, the best of us our planet could create. The Christic impulse which very well may have been carried by the one named Yeshua, but it's a real thing regardless of your history. Quite likely, Yeshua did carry that Christic spark of non-judgment, so he could actually see the grays, or see the others. And, actually sit at the seat. So if they were going to bring one up there, he could sit at the seat and represent from that radical place of non-judgment. That's perhaps the aspirational impulse of how we could earn a seat at the table, if we'd have to step beyond our judgments to a place where we could actually hold the balance of all the cosmos.
MATIAS: That's what we were trying to do in the Atlantean times, when there was not only one ruler, it was around the table, we talked previously. It was around the table of different powers that they were all together deciding. So from inside, accepting each one of the levels of this humanity and that's why they created the idea of polytheism. So, each one could follow their own truth even though they were all together in the Olympus. So even the bad guys and good guys, they would hang out together. Because at the end of everything, they are just part of the same circle, the sincere. It's something that we are trying to practice with the UN in a way, trying. In which all the different voices could be heard, and we are trying to bring balance in between all these voices. The thing is that the people that represent today, they are disconnected from the North Pole, they're disconnected from the seasons, they are disconnected from mother. So that's why this planet is not evolving. It's just practicing stuff.
AUBREY: So, what about in this galactic federation, if there's an ideology, a type of people, a race that is trying to intentionally impose their own way on a people that don't want that way, and potentially even deriving pleasure. Like a lot of the evil is when you derive a certain sense of pleasure from the hurt of somebody else, right? It's not just about the necessity. Maybe you need to eat a planet to survive, that's one type of thing. But then if you're actually enjoying torturing the people that are there, and the beings that are there, like you enjoy the torture, you're actually doing that, is there like a unilateral code of ethics? Like no, like, that's not cool. You can't come from this planet and fuck with these people, and torture and hurt and kill them. That violates an international, intergalactic I should say, kind of ethos.
MATIAS: Yeah, It is like that. Otherwise, we wouldn't exist. Just think about it. We are like ants to them.
AUBREY: So, if the dark beings weren't policed by another ethos, they would have already eaten us, basically fucked with us.
MATIAS: They wouldn't even bother to talk to us, because they would just eat the planet. But let's think about this. There are billions of planets, and most of the planets that are evolving, they are not in the level of evolution of their planet, or our planet. There are billions of planets that just have bacteria. They're just cellular creatures trying to evolve. And those planets also have a nucleus, a core. So, there are many planets to be eaten by them that they don't need to kill us. So, it's like--
AUBREY: So, it would be unnecessary and sadistic to kill us and so--
MATIAS: It's so full of planets. Earth is just in a corner. It's not even important in our galaxy. Earth is like, you have a garden and there's one little plant around there between the whole forest, and you say, yeah, sometimes that plant has beautiful flowers. But it's like, imagine if everyone, all people that are here are just concerned about what is happening with that little plant there. Maybe some bees will go. So, our planet, we perceive that planet Earth is so important because we are planet Earth. So, of course, we take care of who we are. But when you take a look into the Universe, planet Earth is just a spark, a tiny little rock that is evolving. So, there are billions and billions of planets that just have bacteria that are useful for the source of energy that they need. There is a law, for example, saying, don't interfere with planets that are evolving in consciousness. So when a planet starts to think and say, I am, don't bother that planet. And of course, there are people that could come and try to convince us like, our way is the best way, these kinds of things, because we are still trying to figure out what we want to do. But they cannot interfere directly, because there is this law of resonance that makes that this planet is connected to the path of evolution of certain planets that are also mothers. So it's like mother cells, you cannot kill a mother cell. Because otherwise, if you need to reproduce the same pattern, you cannot have the mother cell. So the earth is like a mother cell in your body. You just can come here, put some stuff here and say, in case my planet dies before I was able to do something, I can come back here, take some human, take it back to another planet, bring the DNA and reproduce it again. So, this is like Noah's Ark, like a mother cell in a huge body, which is the galaxy. Nobody would kill us, just us. Yeah, because they need us alive.
AUBREY: Yeah, because we're creating the diversity, complexity, the possibility of the whole universe.
MATIAS: We have so many choices. This planet creates so many choices, like others, there are many other planets with many choices. So, it's like, oh, I want to put my seat there just in case eventually we'll need it. So, we are not controlled, we are monetized. Like a farmer tries to take care of the crop. So, is your decision to feel that the farmer is a bad guy? Or if it's the good guy that is taking care of you? Or--
AUBREY: Are there both? Are there bad farmers who actually want to just wipe out possibility and complexity for some darker origin? Or to harvest some energy from us, or do something and then? Are there the good farmers that want to see how our consciousness develops and see what--
MATIAS: If we talk about harvesting, emotion is very good energy to harvest. So, of course, the more unaware you are, the more energy you create that you are not aware of. So you don't know how to handle your energy, so someone else can eat it. So, for sure, there are some beings in other dimensions that they try for you not to be aware of, so they can use your energy. So let's say the bad farmers.
AUBREY: Vampire, vampire farmers.
MATIAS: Yeah, kind of like that. Yeah. But as I said before this spot because we were eating, so for someone in nature on this planet, we also are the bad farmers. So, life has to keep going. Energy exchange, but interplanetary. So, when you become aware, as a planet, that cannot happen. So, the planet itself is protecting the whole thing. Basically that's why some people don't want for us to become aware, but they cannot kill us because otherwise they cannot have mother cells.
JOHN: In that sense, the aligning with the unfolding of the planet itself, its intelligence. It's not our awakening, it's awakening to planetary intelligence. As that happens, then, something else happens because it's a much deeper degree of integration.
MATIAS: Yeah, you start to listen to planets.
JOHN: So, our awakening process is essentially about becoming the planet. When that happens, there's a much deeper level of cohesion, coherence and integration, because now it's the planet as a conscious integrated entity continuing its evolution.
AUBREY: Is there a story, Matias, of another planet that has gone as far into what Charles Eisenstein would call, the myth of separation? He told a story in his book, "A More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know as Possible". He talks about, in this fictional story, there's never been a planet that's gone this deep into separation and made its way back just hypothetically, right? We've gotten really far, we've been so disconnected from the planetary consciousness that John is talking about. Are there stories of others, maybe it's in our own planet, or maybe it's in other planets of planets losing their bearings to the degree that we've lost our bearings with the interconnectedness of the planet, or at least, many of us. And then finding their way back home?
MATIAS: Yeah, of course, of course. There are planets that even died, like forever, and they need to go to other planets, like the Anunnaki. The Anunnaki didn't come here because they wanted to conquer. They came here because they had nowhere to go. Their planet died because they were so lost. So, Mother Earth received them, and said, "This will be your home." So that's why they were able to live for a period of time here. Because if the planet doesn't want you, it will do everything to kill you. They survived. So that means that Mother Earth allowed them to be here with love, because she understood that they just didn't know what to do. Our planet is unconditional.
AUBREY: "Come here, lost children of the cosmos. I'll show you some motherly love, and maybe you'll find your way again."
MATIAS: So they found love and they fucked everyone, and here we are.
AUBREY: So, the forgetting could go all the way to existential destruction. Complete existential destruction of the whole planet. You could forget so much that you kill everything or you could, just depends on how quickly we remember. So, this process is about how fast we can remember? Can we remember before we forget so deeply that there's even greater and greater and greater calamity that we have to face. So, it seems like that's really our directive here, how quickly and deeply can we remember who we really are?
MATIAS: Faster, you mean?
AUBREY: Yeah, wouldn't that be the impulse? Like, what are we working for, striving for, fighting for? We're fighting for a remembering that takes place quick enough that it avoids existential calamity, right?
MATIAS: I think, let's compare it with something simple in this case. If you had a child, what would you do to teach him? Would you force him to follow the right path? Or would you give them the freedom to choose and to learn from their mistakes? You would say to them, this is the right path, you have to honor this god, you have to be good in this way. Or you would say, this is how I lived, and discover your own way. How would you raise a child?
AUBREY: Yeah, but if you had a child who was playing with fire, and they were trying to light your house on fire, you'd probably go like, "Yo, yo, yo, yo, wait."
MATIAS: You'd have to put limits.
AUBREY: Wait, wait, yeah. Whoa. We live in this house--
MATIAS: But if you forbid him from using the fire, he will burn the house. So, what would you say? This is not the right place to use the fire, but we can go there, and burn these things, and try here. Because of the need to learn, and when you're learning you don't know what is the outcome. So, there are beings that follow rules, and beings that try to find a different way. Usually, our mind is trying to find different ways. So, if you forbid this, your mind will try to find a way to do it anyway. So, that's why the learning process of a child is to create the environment for them to practice without hurting others.
AUBREY: Yeah, we're hella creative. It's like Mormons and their soaking. You know about Mormons and soaking?
MATIAS: No.
AUBREY: Okay, let me tell you a story, Matias, from our planet. I've heard this from a Mormon friend of mine, told me the story, I was cracking up. Basically, premarital sex is forbidden, and the act of intercourse is forbidden. So, what they've devised to get around the forbidden law is what's called soaking. Soaking is where you penetrate but you don't thrust back and forth. But if you got a good friend who's with you, the friend can jump on the bed so it creates the motion, so that you're not actually doing it, so you're not doing the forbidden, you're not fucking. The bed is doing the fucking for you. You just happen... You're soaking, not fucking.
MATIAS: Would be a good friend.
AUBREY: You want your heaviest friend... You got your thick boy Mormon, soaking, who's just good and just bouncing on the bed in just the right way.
MATIAS: You see? You find a way.
JOHN: You find a way.
MATIAS: You will always find a way. That's why, you always create the environment for that.
JOHN: Go back to what you were saying, Aubrey. Let's just redirect this one. I think the other way to think about this is that, clearly, the world desperately needs to awaken. And yet, if one moves in that process to help awaken people from a place of existential anxiety where you're still looking for your survival in that process, then actually it's going to just, the only the only elegant way is to essentially live in that world that our hearts know as possible right now. Like, really right now and then...
MATIAS: Yeah, be the living invitation to the other way.
JOHN: So then however people, because in the long run, in all of these cycles, that actually in the long run is probably what allows for real growth. It's one thing for all of us to feel that sense of urgency and existential, the meta crisis that we have, and how once, it's like when things want to go faster, slow down. I mean, that's what I hear. You want to go faster, we slow down. Because the only possible way of allowing that culture to arise to whatever degree it can is from that place. Otherwise, we would just get whipped up into the speed of Empire.
MATIAS: That's what I was trying to say with a child. You can't force someone that is five years old to do something that someone with 50 years old would do. Just because you know with 50 years old, that that's not right, or that's not good. There is a process of many years in between, that needs a lot of practice to become that. And as humanity, as Homo sapiens sapiens, we have been in this planet for 3 million years. Compared to the history of the planet, it's nothing. We have gone too fast in a process that actually takes more time, like millions of years until you actually become a planet. Imagine the dinosaurs have been millions of years, and they were just practicing something, becoming the Earth with awareness, just unconscious. So then with consciousness, everything speeds up. So that's why mammals started to become so aware, and it was faster and faster and faster. But the process of evolution takes a long time. It's not something that we will experience in this life. It's cycles of--
AUBREY: The impulse to create external technology versus internal technology has put us in a place where technology externally has outpaced our inner technology--
JOHN: So much so.
AUBREY: And that's why we're in a fucking tight spot.
JOHN: Exactly. If we were to bring up our internal tech to the level or the degree our outer tech is, I don't know. That's so much ground that needs to be covered. I mean, so much ground. It's a huge gap. We're starting with psychedelics. We're beginning, but imagine that process, we lost psychedelics 2,000 years ago. So, now we're beginning. We've lost 2,000 years in that particular department.
MATIAS: And we did it as children. Like, in Egypt, when you were seven years old, here are your mushrooms.
JOHN: Blue Lotus.
MATIAS: Blue Lotus
AUBREY: This was your lifetime in Kem, right? So you were using the sacred plants and--
MATIAS: They were not teachers. The teachers gave you tea. So, you would do a ceremony with tea. You would drink the tea, you start to see, and the teacher would start to ask you questions. So, it's the opposite.
JOHN: Just come out.
MATIAS: So, you would learn through the questions. So, the teacher would say, what is this? What is that? And you will start to see the answer. So, it was the opposite. Then when the effect is gone, you discuss the answer.
AUBREY: I mean, that's been my education for the last 24 years. I was educated all through high school, didn't know shit. Then I sat with my first real teacher who was not a shaman, but a sitter, a sitter at the highest level. The difference between a sitter and a shaman, shaman will actually influence the energies that are in the space, kind of cultivate, create. A sitter is actually neutral, and gave me tea. The tea was psilocybin MDMA, and gave me tea and then allowed me to just find the answers. That started me on my own quest of finding the knowledge internally. That's also one of the technologies for these inner sciences, which had been shut down and cut off. That's one of the things that could help accelerate our growth and learning. Now we're able to not only harvest those technologies from our localized area, but through global trade and travel and conversation, new possibilities of these medicines have emerged. I mean, I've talked on this podcast before about the Godbomb medicine, that, to my knowledge, maybe somebody else was doing it, but nobody was talking about it, and I've got my ear to the ground, a combination of a certain series of ingredients that create a power and a way to actually be with somebody as they move through that process to discover their own inner truths. This was part of the mystery school kind of concept that was all the way back when we focused on inner sciences versus exterior sciences.
MATIAS: Yeah, it was all about discovery. One of the hardest tasks that we had was to live in darkness, like in caves, or hidden, so no light to awaken the light within. So, it was a very tough part of the process.
AUBREY: They were initiations.
MATIAS: There were initiations all the time, but we were children. They said you had to experience all of this before you were 14. If after 14 cycles, you didn't do that, you will be linked to the perception of the outer reality. So, it would be very complicated for you to relate with yourself, and you will relate all the things with others. So, that's why if you don't know yourself before you're 14 years old, you will only know yourself through others. That's why when you were 14, you were an adult. In that civilization, if you were 15, you could be mother, you could be father, you could rule the country. That's why the perception that we have is that we live a lot. Because when you were 50 years old, it was like you were an elder, very, very elder. You knew so many things, and you understood so many things. Now, we are 30 something, 40, and we're starting the path. And what we should do is to heal our childhood, the traumas our parents did. So it's like we spent 40 years trying to heal traumas instead of becoming one with God.
AUBREY: And that's only one of the technologies that was kind of shut down and clamped down. It was also the technologies of sexuality, the inner technologies of understanding our own Eros, our own erotic impulses, which I'm sure also had a much different trajectory. How did people learn about sex? How did that ultimately develop as well? Because there's a big reawakening not only of the psychedelic Renaissance, but also sacred sexuality, and magical sexuality, sex magic, starting to understand how to harness those energies in a powerful, magical, productive way.
MATIAS: Yeah, at that time, sex was, they said, there are many ways to understand it, but first is reproduction. They said you need to find the right person to manifest and create reproduction. Then you need to find people that would complete your chakras, let's say. So, for that moment, we had one partner that was forever, and it was not usually because of love. Like, when I met my husband in that life, for example, it was a priest that chose that we should be together. Because they understood the pattern that we had. Like you are from the climate of water, you are from the climate of Earth. So you pour the water on the earth to create this and suddenly we were married. So it was like, okay.
AUBREY: The classic arranged marriage sign.
MATIAS: Water, earth. But, we were practicing sexualities since we developed, like 12 years old, for example. We needed to practice to have the ability to connect with our own sexuality, with other sexualities, with reproductive sexuality. So, sex was a way to restore the magnetical and energetical energy of our own self. So, some people choose the path of, how do you say in english?
AUBREY: Celibacy

JOHN: Celibacy
MATIAS: In order to work mainly with the whole, with a pattern of their own energy--
AUBREY: Their own Kundalini.
MATIAS: Yeah, with a Kundalini, so it would be a whole life about that, and it was a choice. And, for others, for example, in our clan, we had many people. We were many people.
AUBREY: What do you mean?
MATIAS: Like, we were in a community--
JOHN: Polyamorous, you mean? Many sexual relationships?
MATIAS: Yes, kind of like that.
JOHN: In order to balance--
MATIAS: There were priestesses and priests.
JOHN: In order to balance the chakras, there were many, many relationships in order to bring, to help support.
MATIAS: Yeah, for example, in the Temple of Dendur which didn't exist at that time, but the Temple of Dendur still teaches or was teaching about, there were the priestess and priests, that they taught how to use the Kundalini energy to others. So, they usually said, okay, this person will live with you for four years, or four months, like that, to teach you this. This person was specific for that task. And then you have to go to another person for the specific chakras, to awaken a specific type of energy.
JOHN: I have a question for you.
MATIAS: But love was not involved in that. It was only energetical process.
JOHN: So, it sounds like Kem was organized as an educational civilization.
MATIAS: Yeah. It was all about how to become everything.
JOHN: All about education, all about lifelong learning.
MATIAS: Actually, the people were called Suth, Suth means the path. It was along the Nile. So, all the people needed to walk through the Nile, make the journey. So we call ourselves the path. So we needed to go through the path, and we shouldn't be attached to any one of the steps of the past.
JOHN: So all dimensions, whether it was human sexuality, or whether it was agriculture, whatever, everything was integrated in an educational journey.
MATIAS: Yeah. It was equally important to know how to cook, how to sing, and how to have sex. It was equally important for each one of the chakras to be balanced. And once you accomplish all that, that took around 33 years, you were considered an elder.
JOHN: Like a citizen?
MATIAS: Like a proper citizen.
AUBREY: I mean, weren't there still those impulses for just wild love that would just happen, that was not educational?
MATIAS: Oh, yeah, of course.
AUBREY: So, what was the place for that type of, just like, I fucking love you and I got this husband over here from Earth clan, but fuck, we're in love. What was the place? What place did that type of love have in Kem?
MATIAS: I don't know. I don't remember exactly for the lower society. We were divided in clans. In our clan, which was Acherean. So we had to work with the elements. We were divided into four clans that were the families, representatives of the main four that came to the Nile. Osiris, Seth, Isis and Nephthys. So, we represented that so we could only, and only be related to the element that was complimentary to us. We weren't allowed to be with others. But it was at that level of society.
AUBREY: But don't you say that every time something's forbidden, people do it anyway?
MATIAS: Yeah, we were human. Yeah, of course. But it would be, for the other classes that were not part of these four families, it was much more open. Also for the societies above us, which were like the kings and queens and stuff, they didn't care. Because they were not on the path of what we call suth, the one that we had to...
JOHN: It was like the difference, like the caste system with the Brahmins and the warriors. The warriors thought some matter about the Brahmins, have to stay with the Brahmins.
MATIAS: Yeah, exactly. It was something like that. So, in the, not lower society, but those who were following different gods, the polytheistic part of the society, so the ones that honor agriculture, the ones that honor the fishes, so they didn't have that problem. So they used to have gatherings and orgies, because they were exchanging all this...
AUBREY: Did you ever sneak out of the water clan and just go, "I'm gonna check this orgy out." There's a fucking orgy rave going on down over here in the French quarters over here. This shit is fucking lit.
MATIAS: No, we were supposed to be very responsible. Yeah, we were supposed to be very responsible.
AUBREY: Were you? Do you have any memories of--
MATIAS: I was very responsible. But we could do anything with the clan of water and earth. So that was crazy.
AUBREY: So you had your own wild and crazy kind of?
MATIAS: Yeah, of course, because it was natural. Now, the trauma of sexuality is because we had 2,000 years of three main religions that forbade us to fuck. But before that, the Roman Empire, polytheism, all the other traditions that were polytheistic, they had no traumas with that, because nobody was telling you, you have to keep yourself for someone or you have to, it was different. Now we have to deal with our personal traumas of our traditions and cultures and many things that are related to this religious thing of possession. And it's something that “you cannot do this because God doesn't like it”. When we were polytheistic, every god wanted something different. So, they were not like this idea of following only one rule. You had like thousands of rules. So you could take whatever you wanted. That's why in those traditions, it was very common, homosexuality, it was very common, orgies. It was very natural. The whole thing was natural because it was a way of exchanging energy. Even though they had sacred sexuality. So, sacred sexuality was related to the creation. So, I have to create myself in another level of consciousness so I choose someone to bring me into that level of consciousness. There were no problems of connectivity with anyone, but when you were trying to reach creation, you needed to have the person that matches with your chakras. So that's what they call you have to be with this clan.
AUBREY: That was the version of the sacred union for the sake of the child, the progeny.
MATIAS: Exactly, yeah.
JOHN: New child being your own... Being their own soul.
MATIAS: Huh?
JOHN: The child being their own, develop their own--
MATIAS: Exactly. So, that's what they called the sacred union. Because it was about balance, the connection and the creation. But, culturally, there was no repress on homosexuality, because sexuality was constant creation and exchange. But as I said, for some levels of society, it was like, no way. You shouldn't touch someone that is from fire. You can burn this kind of thing.
AUBREY: Now you've stepped into this life, and this life has thousands of years of stories that were potentially seeded from this monotheistic, shame-ridden, religious structure. Obviously, you've either chosen or were born to live a homosexual path. It's just your nature. So that's already divergent from the, but also fully accepted, thankfully, thank God. We're at this place, most places in the world. But as you interface with the stories, the stories of just being with one partner, and that partner and you guys, possessing, owning each other's erotic impulses, and all of that, has that just never really landed for you because of your memory of the way it used to be? What do you think about it? Because these stories have momentum, and these stories are now putting us in a situation where that story is starting to deteriorate. Divorce rates above 50%, those who stay together most of them unhappy. You can chart graphs of the Eros between them, the erotic impulse, and like Wednesday Martin's book Untrue kind of declining or falling off a cliff and then infidelity rates. Extraordinarily high. So all of these things are trying to support a story that may not actually be the best guiding story to go by.
MATIAS: As I said, we are coming out from 2000 years of Pisces, which is the two fishes. So, you need the two in order to organize everything. Now, we are going to Aquarius, which is a network. So, when people start to wake up the need of being two disappears. That's why people when they start to connect and realize about their own lives, they start to go, or against their older traditions or try to live a different way. So you start to wake up, so you are not bound by the culture that you previously have. That's why people get divorced and people start to, right now is so fast the process that a person has. Before it took 50 years for someone to realize something, and now in a weekend, you can just have a huge realization and in 15 days, change it.
AUBREY: At Burning Man.
MATIAS: A Burning Man. Maybe. So, things are happening so fast right now. Our civilization is experiencing all the processes that before took thousands of years to learn in just a few weeks. So that's why we are experiencing this disconnection from the two, and start to go to the net. That's why a lot of people are like within this connection of people instead of just looking for that someone. So, I think right now we are living the trauma of that because we don't know how to do it properly. We don't know--
AUBREY: Look, I lived the trauma of that. I decided, I get it. I understand. This is from my own inner exploration, 12 years of inner exploration, 14 or something like that. 14 years of inner exploration. I was like, fuck, I get it. It's not the story. It's not the story that makes sense to me. So, I was like, I'm going to be polyamorous. I was like, I got this, it makes perfect sense. Eros should not be possessed by one person. There's so many possibilities, and so many things that can happen. I went in there, and I was just fucking roasted.
JOHN: There's still 2000 years. Even though your frontal cortex is Aquarius--
AUBREY: Yeah, I was jealous and tormented and broken up inside, and so much pain. Like initiation, like a nonstop ceremony, I ultimately evolved through the crucible of breaking and opening, breaking and opening, and got better at it and was able to understand it. But still trying to step into that new story was torturous.
MATIAS: In the Nile, the first temple that you visit is the root chakra. The last one is the crown chakra in the pyramids. But we tend to believe that these are opposites, when actually one is really in the other. So when you go to the root chakra, you learn about spirituality. When you go to the crown chakra, you learn about sexuality. Why is that? Because the hypothesis gland, which is called pituitary here. The pituitary gland is the one that controls the genitals. The genitals are the ones that calm the pituitary, it's the opposite. Why? Because the spirit is asking to be manifested into the matter. So, your higher self is trying to manifest and your genitals are trying to survive and calm, like stay still, in order to produce. So they balance each other. What happens? When we disconnected from the spirits, we let all the forces of the spirit just into our balls. Which means that--
JOHN: He's like, no.
MATIAS: Which means that we divided the process of the spirit into need and purpose. So, in the middle, you have the solar plexus, which is the ego. When we disconnected from the spirit in all these 2000 years of history, or 5000 years of history let's say, what started to happen is that we were more controlled by our genitals than our spirit. Because they are so interconnected, we can confuse the purpose of it with the need of it. Because we are not connected. So that's what creates the trauma. Because you have an idea of, oh, this is how it should be. But actually, what is really in that need is your balls. Because we were disconnected from the Spirit, the Spirit knows everyone is love, everything is connected. But you can feel that not having sex. Why do you have the need to have sex? Because the body was disconnected from the actual spirit. So, because we are not interconnected in this way like we used to become like with the Kundalini and everything. So we are pulled by the need. We all are, because our bodies have been 2,000 years or more disconnected from that. So, we can confuse sexuality with spirituality because we are disconnected, and all the spirituality went to our balls. Now when we understand that sexuality is a way to the spirit, but we have been forbidden to have sex for 2,000 years, now we want just to fuck. So the first 200 years of Aquarius will be a trauma of sexuality. Because we have to release all the spirituality that was stuck in our balls.
AUBREY: What's the equivalent for balls for a woman?
MATIAS: It's the same.
AUBREY: Pussy?
MATIAS: No, it's the ovaries. So, ovaries and eggs, they're the same. Our balls actually are a malformation of ovaries. So, we are a mistaken evolution. A necessary mistake. This disconnection of the actual spiritual sexuality, which brings the spirit into the matter, made us confused sometimes that having sex is love. Because we were disconnected. But actually having sex is bringing the spirit into the matter. The sacred sexuality was not about pleasure. Pleasure is the result of the connectivity of all the chakras together, so the spirit can be manifested. So in sexuality, you experience the same thing as with Ayahuasca when you do that.
AUBREY: When you do it right.
MATIAS: When you do it right. Otherwise, it's just a need to express something. I think that that's why to teach sexuality again, and to be again expanded, to be connected with others in a free way, you have to go through the trauma that you have been holding for 2,000 years. The belly button down is sin. So it's still there. So everything that happens from the belly button down, even if we like it, our body interprets sin as a conflict. So that's why we have jealousy, conflicts, and trauma from that. So, even if our head understands what is the pattern of it, and we say, oh, yeah, love is expansion, is everything, every one of our cells, and some patterns in our brain, still don't get it. Because it's only in the need of expressing something that I was forbidden for so long. So it creates confusion, and trauma.
AUBREY: Yeah, that makes a lot of fucking sense.
MATIAS: It takes time. It takes time.
AUBREY: As we're wrapping up, it's been a long day. We're going deep into the night here. The last thing I want to touch on is, I'm wearing this necklace now and I've described this necklace, it's about relationships that I have that are not sexual in nature, but they are deep, deep close friendships and alliances. This is like a symbol of my inner circle of my closest friends, and my own tribe within a greater tribe. There's many more people that are not represented on this necklace who I love very much. But what was the idea around, because you probably had a much greater sense of community for your whole civilization. But was there anything involving developing the relationships with your friends, your brothers, your sisters, what was that psychotechnology, the inner technology, the fruition of that? How did that look like the deepest friendships that you had, and how you cultivated those and the importance of those?
MATIAS: Community, we were interpreted that family was not the blood. So, we lived in communities, not families. At least, that's how all the ancient traditions used to do. Every woman was a mother, a sister. Every man was a brother.
AUBREY: I mean, you see that in Hawaii, you have the Ohana. Everybody's auntie, everybody's uncle. There's this idea that it's beyond just the blood. That there's some other sacred bond there.
MATIAS: Yeah, I think that the idea of just the family was created because of the king and feudalism tradition.
AUBREY: And the hereditary transfer of wealth and title.
MATIAS: Exactly. They said we have to create a family separated from other families and stuff like that.
JOHN: And by separating clans... The process of Empire leads to greater and greater separation. A clan is so much more potent than a couple than a little family. I mean, so much more power when you're a clan than if you're just an isolated family.
MATIAS: As I said before, for us we were divided in elements, and we only can cross with certain elements. My sister was another element. But even though we were in certain moments together doing stuff, specifically for our lives, but I had my family as the water
AUBREY: The water clan.
MATIAS: She had her family as the air. So, even if we were the same blood, our clans were more important than the family we were born in. Because that creates a connection through time, like a soul that holds each other beyond time, beyond space. That's how we lived it that way.
AUBREY: John, what would you like to ask Matias as we kind of bring this to a close? Anything that's sparked in your own mind or anything you'd like to offer hearing this really deep remembering of the sacred world and sacred relationship?
JOHN: I think, I'm curious about, how do you suggest, as this cycle is repeating itself again, how do you suggest that people prepare themselves? What does that mean? What does that mean for that to happen again? And what does it mean for people to come into the right relationship with where we are, despite the obvious gap that we have between ourselves and how it was in previous times?
MATIAS: Well, of course, there is something today that we are. It's a global thing that now we have to take care of the planet.
JOHN: It's the whole thing. Before it wasn't. This is now a global civilization.
MATIAS: Exactly. Before it was a region. During the Atlantean time, it was a whole. But after Atlantis, there were regions. We were protecting regions and connecting with regions. Now it's whole again. We are repeating the same pattern, the cycle of worldwide civilization that connected everything through pyramids, that we have the same cultures, similar languages. Now we all kind of speak, kind of the same languages, even if each one has their own. So, it starts to be global again. We started to talk about the net, again, about notes. We started to recreate what Atlantis was, but in the mood of Aquarius. And globally, we have this thing now of taking care of the planet. Which is, again, from the point of view of we humans have the task of saving the world, which is a whole story that doesn't make sense. So, I think that this is the first step for people to engage with the planet and start to wonder how to take care of the planet. That is the first step to becoming the planet. So, what I would suggest is for people to start understanding the main subtle things. Like, why do we have 24 hours? Why is there a North Pole physical and one magnetical? Why the seasons change. To understand why the Moon is there, why we have 12 months. They're such simple things that you don't even study in school. Like, when you learn about that in school, it's not powerful. It's just data. But it's not powerful. You don't feel it, you don't learn how to connect with that. And, I think one of the most important things to understand is that we are not trying to awaken this life because we have to accomplish something as soon as possible. Every day, we have this practice that we are going to sleep, we wake up, we do stuff in the day, we go to sleep again. So, this first cycle helps you understand that you can do stuff, and there's a moment to relax. So, when you die, the same happens. And, the cycle is constant. Understanding the cycles helps you to know that you are not late, that you are not failing anything, that it doesn't matter if you don't accomplish that in this life. Because when a branch cannot give fruit in this cycle, maybe next summer, it will. But maybe needed to go inside and store energy for them to blossom again. So, I would suggest taking the chance to look into nature. Because we went outside the cycle of nature, we don't understand how nature repeats itself once and again. We lost that connectivity on how humans also do the same, how civilizations rise and fall is the same as summer and fall. It's exactly the same thing. Religions also do the same. There is a process to go up, go down. A civilization, a country, a family, a relationship. So, it's all cycles, it's constant like that. As soon as we can engage with that, we are not going to get enlightened, we are going to live in harmony. So, first thing to understand. Don't do this to get enlightened or to finish something or to arrive somewhere. Because--
JOHN: There is no.
MATIAS: There is no way to know. The Earth is rounded. Even if you run in a straight line, you will arrive the same place.
JOHN: Yeah, so that wisdom of learning what it means to start harmonizing with cycles. In the Buddhist tradition, when they talk about Kalachakra, the time wheel. The awakening, the enlightenment happens through the cycle, like through the cycles. You harmonize yourself with the cycles, and it happens naturally in its own good time. But if you try to be somewhere else in some other time, rather than learning the lessons that we have to learn right now.
MATIAS: For me, when I started to remember when I was 12 years old, what my life was 12,000 years ago, I was desperate because I was like, "My gosh, I need to do this, this and this." Right now in order to accomplish what I couldn't do in 12000 years, and suddenly I said, 12,000 years. I have time. I remember a very high priest who was kind of an alien. We weren't supposed to look into their eyes, and I did. He said, now, because you have seen my eyes, you will live with a burden, the burden of knowing that you have to wait 12,000 years to do it. I remember that time when I said, "Why so long?" He said, "There is a time for everything. We are not in a rush, we will see again." But you just have to do other things in the middle. So, he was so calm about waiting 12,000 years to just do something.
AUBREY: I'm so impatient. Also another realization that's coming is...
JOHN: Plus the cycles of our civilization is impatient. The thing is, we are harmonized with these cycles, and they're in our nervous systems. I don't know if you're that. I mean, yes. But if we run that rhythm, we feel impatient because--
MATIAS: The world is smashing us up. The civilization is like, we have to do something now, now, now, now, now.
AUBREY: So, I understand that I'm a product of our culture and civilization. However, from this other new perspective that's washing over me, it's like--
JOHN: The things that you're bringing, though, Aubrey, are reflections of slowing down.
AUBREY: It's true. It's a reflection of remembering.
JOHN: Yeah, of remembering, exactly. That if we want to go faster, we actually have to go slow.
MATIAS: That's why you have to leave the trauma to slow down.
AUBREY: Yeah. Wow. Well, this was a wild fucking podcasts.
MATIAS: Let's suffer. And slow down.
AUBREY: Anything else either one of you guys want to add before we drift off into our little sleep death that awaits us?
MATIAS: See you in 12,000 years.
AUBREY: I'm going to see you tomorrow, motherfucker. I'm not done with you yet, Matias. We got some more time here. Well, thank you, everybody, for tuning into this podcast and having some fun with us on this journey of remembering. Thank you, Matias, for offering your wisdom, a very unique set of wisdom. Thank you, John, for really understanding such similar wisdom from your own lens, in your own way. And in my own way, I've studied wisdom in the way that I could. This is also the beauty of this time is that we're able to, through this external technology communication, actually, and planes and ability to travel, we're able to gather, put microphones in front of us, exchange ideas, communicate, and start to weave a new story of a new human and a new humanity and a new civilization. So, thank you to you both. I love you guys.
MATIAS: Thank you for giving me this space.
JOHN: Thank you brother.
AUBREY: Yeah. Thanks, everybody. See you next week.