What questions do you ask a living memory cell of the universe? Matías De Stefano is a person I intend to have as many conversations with as possible. In the few days I spent with him, one podcast was not enough, so we invited him to do another podcast (live) to kick off our Fit For Service Summit in Sedona. In this profound conversation, we dive into the concepts of sacred union, the body as a manifestation of spirit, our ancient and current outlooks on death, and so much more. It’s such an honor to be able to access the wisdom of Matías De Stefano and all he has remembered from his cosmic existence. We opened the last part of the podcast for Q & A from the audience, and Matías had answers that will blow your mind.

AUBREY: All right. Thanks everybody for settling in. This here is Matias De Stefano and yes, I love that some of you know him. Because meeting this man has been one of the greatest blessings that I can remember in recent history. His ability to access information from a calm place of knowing. And this calm place of knowing, for people who don't know his history, he described himself as if the whole universe and our planet is an organism and he just happens to be a memory cell and the memory cell of that organism is able to remember the past lives that he's lived and also have access points as this particular type of cell that he is, that his higher self can communicate and download information. Now, I have to say that we're here in Sedona, you go to a local juicery, you're going to hear horoscope readings. I heard a long explanation of how, if you shoot near the sun, there's going to be an orb that arises in the picture. And I'm like, it's not an orb. It's what happens with the camera flare, man. Like, what the fuck you guys talking about, get me out of here. I always come with a healthy amount of skepticism and I definitely encourage that here in Sedona as well. And I approached. Matias, the same way I was like, well, what is this guy talking about? Talking about Atlantis. He doesn't know. And then I started listening to him and everything he said resonated in my body. Like someone was playing a Spanish guitar that was perfectly in tune. And I'm like, that's a fucking song. And it makes sense. And it resonates and the truth resonates. And we did a two and a half hour podcast yesterday and it was absolutely in resonance with so many experiences I've had from 22 years of plant medicine journeys, everything, making correlations, connections, connecting the dots. And so I just want to share that incredible gratitude that I have for you for saying yes to coming out here and not only jumping on the podcast, but coming in here to share yourself with this community. So the interesting challenge of having this intergalactic record keeper of all things and access of all things is what do you talk to him about? So I'm going to try and talk to him as many times as I possibly can in this life. But for today, because we have this theme of finding the union within the self and the union within all, I want to start there and I want to start talking with you about union. And I guess a good place to start is, you give a beautiful explanation of union through biology, through cells, through atoms themselves, being this interconnected force, but I'd like to touch on that. But then also talk about why the ancients and why so many people have discussed the Trinity as an important part of the union. So, that will be our jump off point, is to understand the universal unity and then the reasons why people have tried to understand unity in the form of the Trinity. 

MATIAS: Well. Hi, everyone. Well, as I told you yesterday, there are many ways to explain all this. There are thousands of ways and what I explained is not the truth, sorry. What I explained is just a slice of the truth that I was able to access. So this means that whatever I explain is just an idea for you to understand a little bit and then to keep looking for more so you can complete the puzzle. So basically, unity, from our point of view, is only seen by a trinity because when you have the beginning of everything, which is the nothingness you have one dot, nothing else. That's unity. It's not union, it's unity. So it's only one thing, but that only one thing cannot know that it is unless it observes itself. So in order for the unity to know what it has within, it has to observe. So that's why it goes out and creates duality. Duality is a different point of view to observe itself. So it can have a different point of view. So it can stare like in a mirror. But with that observation, does nothing. You need to manifest it. You need to move yourself to see if what you see is real or not. So you have to change your point of view. Which makes us three, which is the movement of duality. And that creates a triangle. Which means that the first shape in the universe that ever existed is a triangle because it's the only possible existing being, because you have one thing that is observing itself and moving around in order to have a different perspective of itself. So that's why the first structure that ever existed in the universe is a triangle. From there, fractalization, from three, you get six, nine, and so on. And it creates fractals everywhere. But the first integration that the triangle has to do is to find the core. So unity goes to duality to find trinity and by trinity it finds the movement that when you accomplish to give the whole circle, the whole spinning around, you find yourself in the center. You realize that any of those points weren't real, but all of them made only one. So you return to the unity for the first time, not unity but union, the unity of all the parts with the understanding of what you had within. And that is the triangle with one dot in the middle. And that's the famous image of the triangle with an eye that you have in the dollar and these things. Well, it was not masons who made it. It was very old. Masons imitated that. It is the first triangle with one thing that says, Oh, now I see, that's why they put an eye on it. Now I understand, now I see. And with that vision, actually what you have is a tetrahedron. I don't know if you know the shape. Tetrahedron is a geometrical shape of four triangles, one in the base and three around. So that is geometrically the first structure that creates anything that exists from an atom, particles, everything. So that's why Trinity is so important to understand unity. 

AUBREY: When people were trying to understand the Trinity, they often divided that into what you could call archetypes, and we associate archetypes with genders, but they're really archetypes, masculine, feminine, creative life force. And this was expressed in a variety of different pantheons, different gods and goddesses, different beings that were actually, some of them manifested to help explain this idea and some of them just conceptual. So talk about why it was divided in such a way to have masculine, feminine, and the creative force.

MATIAS: Well, the feminine and masculine idea is something that we as a species have, it's not something of the universe. The universe doesn't have feminine or masculine, has positive or negative. That's the truth. The rest is just the evolution of our world. 

AUBREY: You mean positive and negative like magnets.

MATIAS: Yeah, like magnetism. It's not bad or good. The negative is the nothing that contains the whole, which is the everything. So we could say that the negative, we can call it the feminine because it's the womb that allows everything to be created. And the everything is the masculine energy, which is the one that goes out and manifests something outside. But that's something from our point of view as humans. Actually, for the universe is positive and negative. So the negative would be this dot that is nothing, is the point, the unity. And then from there creates duality. So one negative and the other positive. In order to be observed and to manifest something through movement. When it moves, it creates a wave, is the third option. So the wave, the frequency, creates the third option. So we have now this idea that we have something that is negative, something that is positive, that in the movement creates something new. This is the basis of what we have as a proton, electron, and a neutron, for example. So that's the first sacred trinity that we could have in our reality in the third dimension. 

AUBREY: A little too small for us to see, so gods and goddesses decided, hey, look, let's make this a little easier on you guys. 

MATIAS: Let's make it a little bit bigger. So the universe became itself from that shape as a tetrahedron and multiplied itself by thousands and millions creating molecules and from the molecule components, chemicals and so on. So throughout evolution, everything tried to keep the same pattern that was created with the positive and the negative and neutral. So that kept us to the stars where you have a sun and then you have a moon and you can call the moon the negative because it brings you down inside and the sun brings you out to sea. So you can take these options in the reality. And eventually this same creature that was creating once and again said, maybe if I divide myself also in positive and negative, I will be able to create different shapes. So it creates the feminine and the masculine for the first time. And I'm not saying women and men, I'm saying feminine and masculine, which are energies totally different from reproduction. So, it manifests two, that eventually in evolution, some creatures will need to manifest the female and the masculine to make it physical, to make that real. But it's not that the universe was made like that. It was an option for the universe because for some trees, for the rocks, for some animals, it doesn't work like this. So you cannot put that system in the entire universe. Like if there is a father and a mother because that's only for mammals. So we mammals start to create the idea that the universe has a feminine and masculine, but because we are mammals, not because it's the truth. So we are a distortion of the positive and the negative call women and men. And that distortion was able to manifest and create. Many things, a negative, which is called the matrix and the positive called the pattern. So all creatures are created through a matrix following some patterns. Matrix and pattern are the origin of the word mother and father in all languages. So the mother is the matrix, that network that manifests all possibilities. The patterns are the lines that you have to follow. So it's the dot that you follow as an idea in life. And then you manifest yourself through both as a son or a daughter, feminine, masculine, et cetera. So we are just a distortion or a projection of what the universe really is doing, which is creating waves of vibration of positive and negative in order to manifest realities. So we are just one of those experiences that is trying to figure out. So it's not the complete truth, it’s our truth. 

AUBREY: And when you say we described this on the podcast, the word distortion can have weight in which it's bad, but it really, this is just energy coming into form and when it comes into form it creates us and it creates this thing, that's not the pure energy anymore. It's obviously mixed and that's why it's a projection of the thing, but that's also mixed with a variety of other different forces to create a manifest being. 

MATIAS: Yeah. We usually have this division of Trinity also that we call spirit, soul and body. And it's common for us to say we have a body and inside we have a soul and above we have a spirit, but it's not that also. That’s a separation that we created like mom, dad and son or the father, the Holy Spirit. I don't know, and the sun. I never seen a holy ghost having a kid.

AUBREY: You’ve been to a lot of places. 

MATIAS: So there's something missing there. So the father, the mother, and the son, I'd like to say. So, these three are the basis, sorry, what are you saying? 

AUBREY: Well, I think ultimately, we were talking about how just these energies are essential. 

MATIAS: I remember. So we separate these three. But actually they are the same. It's the same cell, the same species, the same human. So actually the spirit is not something apart from the other two. The spirit just changed its vibration to become a soul. And the soul changed its vibration to become a body. So the body is just the projection of the soul and the spirit. Which means that you should not go up above to find the spirit. You should go within, in the atoms to find the spirit. You should not go outside or other lives to connect with your soul. You just have to go to your emotion, the hormones to find the soul. So it's everything connected as that sacred Trinity. In ancient times, they tried to explain this in many different ways. You have one sun and one moon. So you have the mother and the father. For the ancient ones, the mother was the son and the father was the moon because the moon was guiding us as the mother was giving everything. So it was completely opposite to what we have now. And we were the kids learning and creating and so on. But if you go to Mars, it doesn't work. If you go to Sirius, it doesn't work because you have two suns. So two fathers. And many moons. 

AUBREY: Big family.

MATIAS: Big family. Yeah. So this concept of the Trinity as mom, dad is only here, on this planet. If you go to Jupiter, the family grows up, it's very different. So the concept of how we started to project this into the gods, into the divine is just a mammal perspective and all the trinities that in every culture they were trying to explain was about that, was about what they were looking at. We have three things, or they were trying to figure out three main things. You need a mom and a dad to have a kid. The universe needs a trinity to create something new. But you have three things because the kid is not only the one that creates, it’s part of the Trinity. So what creates really is love, which is the unity between three aspects. So that's the main core. 

AUBREY: So the sacred union is love. 

MATIAS: Exactly. And love has many ways to be understood which takes us to another thing, but in every culture, this unity of love through three things was seen in many different ways. For example, you have the main trinity in Greek mythology or in Egyptian mythology. You have many trinities around, but, sorry for the word, but they were fucking all around with everyone. Why? Because if the family is always the same, you will have the same result all the time. So they understood in order to create more food, you have to cross some plants to have bigger corn, so they did the same. And that's why in ancient mythology, you see that the gods were fooling around all the time with everyone and say, why? Because of that, because of creation, in order to create, they needed to do many expressions with many around. 

AUBREY: And I know a lot of you are being like, I knew it. I'm just a God and a goddess. That's it, confirmed. You have purview to experiences in which there were physical manifestations of these energies in a very pure form. Can you talk about any that perhaps you encountered, a goddess, a priestess, a priest. Obviously, nothing is perfect in the world of distortion, but really try to embody some of these energies in physical form that you were able to either witness or hear about in your stories or that came through. 

MATIAS: Well, the Atlantean civilization, they were creating a civilization in which they said, we are making people into gods and goddesses. So the main advertisement of that civilization was we are here to be divine and we can be better.

AUBREY: It's a strong marketing campaign. 

MATIAS: Yep. So in a very different way in which we have been living in the past 3000 years. In which we believe that there is a divine there. And in order to be divine, we have to leave this world. The ancient ones, they said, we are already in the skies. We are levitating around the sun. We are part of the heavens. So we should not leave this world in order to become the divine. We should make that divine here because we are here in the skies. So many of the Atlantean people, they describe all the civilization in order to become that. And priests like Jahud, which is Isis and all this Usurr Osiris. And all these gods and goddesses were not gods and goddesses, they were people. They were people that accomplished to recognize that they were divine. That everything in their body was light. We are light. Every molecule, every atom is basically light energy. So they accomplished to manifest that, to acknowledge that they were part of every tree, every mountain, everything. So they became an example for everyone. So they embodied the divinity. That's why they call them gods, even if they weren't as we think about a god, of course. That's why gods walked in between humans. Sometimes it was not aliens, it was people that accomplished to become. 

AUBREY: Did you ever get to meet any of those people?

MATIAS: In this life? Or in another life. 

AUBREY: In another life.

MATIAS: In another life, yes. 

AUBREY: What was it like? What was the experience like?

MATIAS: They were all the time covered in white and you couldn't see their faces. 

AUBREY: So they were actually like–

MATIAS: Very white like the sun would hurt the skin. So they were all covered with a veil.

AUBREY: But could you feel a particular energy from them? 

MATIAS: Yes, it was like. You do like this–

AUBREY: You would naturally just–

MATIAS: By culture, you were not meant to see into their eyes. So you always had to do this.

AUBREY: Yeah, interesting.

MATIAS: Yeah. But just a few times they were there, not many.

AUBREY: When we're in this world now in this existence. As I said on the podcast yesterday, I met Don Miguel Ruiz, who was as close as I felt to someone who is a being of radiating light, an eighth dimensional being of an ascended master here. And many people who have met Ram Dass have said the same thing. And we see some of these examples that do exist, but many of us don't have those encounters. Maybe if we were in Nepal and certain areas that we could find them in certain, or in India, I'm sure they exist in other places where there aren't books being written and things, many places. But for us who don't have the ability to learn directly and experience directly what that is, because it's a profound impact to experience that that's possible. It definitely shifted me and it shifted a lot of people. If we are using our own bodies and each other in relationship to try and understand the union, understand these two forces. What would you say are some of the productive ways to use relationships, to use our bodies to help bring us closer to the state where we're just aware of who we really are?

MATIAS: Well, the body is the main machine to create. So it's a generator of energy all the time. Physically, emotionally, mentally, we are creating energy all the time. And that not only affects the world we live in, it's also affecting even other planets and other systems and dimensions. Every decision, every action we do, we modify other realities. So using our body as a way of modifying many things is key to a great transformation. Because sometimes we feel that we are dense in a very dense way that we have to light up and go somewhere in the fifth dimension. But we have to remember that we are not what we are here, that we are just a tiny little part of our own reality. We are like the anchor of a boat. So the boat can sink if there is no anchor. So our bodies are like the anchors for the entire being that we are. And if we are not here, present in this world, the boat can sink. The thing is that we should be connected with the chain to the boat, which is our connection. Otherwise, we are there and the boat leaves, which happens for many boats going away and many anchors here in the sand. The thing is that our work here is to be anchored here and we have tools in this world, like food, like sex, like exercise, like many things practical–

AUBREY: Breathing.

MATIAS: Yeah, breathing. That seems silly sometimes, but that they are the key for holding that boat, which is the spirit. So the thing is that we have learned about this for so long since we are humans. It's about sexuality, food, practical things like doing the initiatic path and walking around the planet and feeling the ground and doing so many things, very earthy things. Until there was this moment in which people started to feel that we were punished to be here in this reality and that we are trapped in this reality. So they start to look to the skies and try to escape from this reality and leave to the boat, believing that in the boat is the reality. So for the last 3,000 or 2,000 years, we have been denying all the tools that make the spirit exist because we are not trapped here. The spirit created this because the spirit is willing to manifest. For the spirit to be unity is very boring. I told you yesterday. Because the will of the universe is to create, to manifest, to do things with things it has within. So if we all get enlightened right now, and we all go to the fifth dimension, and suddenly we understand everything, someone will say, and now what? What do we do? So someone will say, well, let's go back. At least there's food . So 

AUBREY: Sex, food, laughter, dancing. 

MATIAS: Yeah. So the thing is try to live here with the tools that we have here, but not lose this chain that connects us to the spirit, to the higher self that we are. So for the past 2000 years we have been denying reality as if it is a punishment and we blame ourselves if we feel pleasure. Sorry, but we’re the Christians and Islams, semitic people, basically not Islams. Semitic people suffer so much in the desert that they thought that the only way to escape was to suffer a little bit more. And the people in the rainforest said, “I don't know what you're talking about.” That's why when you go to Native Americans, they say, “why to suffer if we live plainly?” So the Semitic people spread along the entire planet, a vision of suffering that in 2000 years have been ruling our minds. That's why most of the people start to look at truth in the Amazon, in the desert here, in Native Americans from South America, Central American, or the Australian people, or I don't know, Asia, because there other points of view that are not about suffering, that are about living this reality as a way of manifestation of the Spirit. So the ways in which we can really live plainly and be useful for the universe is if we live plainly here with the reality that we have designed for ourselves. 

AUBREY: You talk about the Semitic people and I resonate with that deeply, but there's also in Eastern philosophy and traditions, there's a lot of people who've studied in that way and they will casually use the word meat suit for this body. But it's almost in a denigrating way, like, Oh yeah, this is just the meat soup. The important thing is the spirit. And I think there's some of us here who've found ourself casually denigrating this, here, this fucking magic portal manifesting incarnation of the soul and the spirit in form. This is it. This is all of the things as well. Like, so there's not only in the Semitic way, but there's also in some other philosophies where it's like, no, no, no, let's just meditate out of this thing. Let the body go to waste the aesthetic attitudes. Whereas really what you're saying, what I've always really felt and believed. And me and Vylana, I'll talk to you guys about some of the tantric paths we've been on. And really using this, like, all right, let's see what this body is capable of when you unleash the maximum amount of pleasure and energy and laughter and love and sensuality and support. And let's honor this vessel in a different way. And so I think it's a reminder to be like, no, no, no, no, no. Like we got something magical here. Like really, really magical. And we won't be able to hold onto it forever, but while we fucking have it, let's go. 

MATIAS: Yes. Body biology is the most perfect technology ever created by the spirit. And it's like if you have been designing the best car ever, and when it's ready, you say, no, I don't deserve this because I'd rather be in the forest but I did it all my life and so let's drive a little bit.

AUBREY: Let's push the buttons. Let's use the levers. What does this one do? Oh, this one's in your anus. Great. Push it. You made it. 

MATIAS: And you will figure out amazing things. 

AUBREY: But really it's this crazy idea. Like, no, no, I'm not going to push that button. But no, you made it. You made that button as the manifesting principle of the universe. You fucking made it. Push it at least once. See what happens. 

MATIAS: At least you have to try. 

AUBREY: For sure. 

MATIAS: Yes. Every part of the body has a connection with the fourth, fifth, and sixth dimension. Seventh is another thing, but until the sixth dimension, each part of your body is connected with the entire divinity and any point you touch, any pleasure you feel is felt in all those dimensions. So sometimes we believe that if we feel something here, for example, in the sixth dimension, there are some beings that, well here in this third dimension too, but suffering, why do we have to suffer? And the suffering that we feel as individuals, when you put all that together as suffering there are beings in the sixth dimension that feel pleasure because they don't understand the amount of suffering as something bad, but as a conjunction of energy that is discharging in the body. Like some people love to suffer. Where there are beings that live because of that suffering that we create, and there are others that can feel the joy very high. So anything, our body is like this machine that whenever you touch, you are modifying other realities. Like when you understand why your knee is hurting and suddenly you understand that this is connected with all your fathers and grandparents and everybody. And when you do something with your leg, you heal all your history. And just by doing this. And it's a complete complex and incredible machine that the spiritual realm has created in order to be able to live their dreams, our dreams. So like this planet was also for that. So talking about the feminine and the masculine energy. Both energies are within every human. Both energies are in every one of us. And biology just accomplished to manifest it physically and to manifest other things like keep going with evolution, like having kids and so on. But when we discover that that potentiality is within us, it's not in tools outside and that in every part of our body, we have the ability to connect with all that. So we will discover really the divine within which is not something hidden in a flesh suit. It's the flesh suit that embodies the spirit, the divine. And when we see the body as something separate from the spirit it’s because we have been living in cultures that made us believe that we are trapped in a body, that our essence should be free from our body. If that would be like that, why not kill ourselves right now? Why not? Because the system was prepared to live, not to die. And because the spirit wants to live. And to die is just another step in life, but it's not the main one. Because when you die, you immediately are born again. And that's a problem for those who want to die. I don't know if you want to go to heaven or something like that. But that's only in your mind. When you die, you are born again immediately. But your mind thinks that that process is eternal. So that's why you can enjoy a kind of heaven or hell, whatever you want. But actually energy is transforming constantly in the matter. So positive, negative, positive, negative is the constant. 

AUBREY: That's the paradox of upon death, you're transcending the third. You're no longer bound in the third dimension, at least accessing the fourth, which is the dimension of timelessness. So in the dimension of timelessness, it's both eternity and immediate and both of those are the same. It's a very interesting paradox, but I just want to shift it back to one important concept. And this was the idea of how we have judgments about pain or we have judgments about what we feel, but if you start to shift that and look at those, like, all right, these are just different notes on a keyboard or different synths in a symphony, I remember once I was in a polyamorous relationship and it got really hard at certain times. I was incredibly jealous and in pain and suffering. And I remember at one point I had this realization at one of the most difficult times my sweetheart was with someone that was really hard for me for her to be with. And I remember thinking you know what? This feeling is so strong. It's such a strong feeling. I have a deep appreciation for this. And one day, I was actually driving the car. I was in the passenger seat. I had my hand outside the window and I could feel the wind hitting my hand. And I was like, this is like so much wind, like so much energy hitting my body. And I was like, I wonder if one day. I'll miss being able to just feel this, even though it's terrible, like I don't like how it feels, like there's a beauty to feeling this much energy. And that little subtle perspective shift changed how I approached it. There was just a little twinge of appreciation and we can do that with anything just to say, this is a lot of energy that I'm feeling. This is beautiful. And it's kind of this warrior poet mindset that I've always kind of had. Like the only thing I don't want is to feel nothing, to feel numb, to have everything be muted and gray. Like as long as I'm feeling something, like really feeling something, feeling really deeply sad or deeply in love or deeply in joy or deeply in laughter. Like that's living. If we can just kind of gently remove the judgment about this is good, this is bad and just be like, no, I'm really here to feel.

MATIAS: That’s why we decided to live here in this dimension. Otherwise we would be in seventh. We have a part of us that lives in the seventh dimension, not feeling anything and feeling everything at the same time. The lighted ones, they are holding the meaning of everything. But they cannot have any meaning if we don't do stuff. So it's us or the part of us in the third dimension that are able to give all these memories and all this information to the entire universe of how to live. And it's all about this perception of things that completely changed everything. It’s not a good energy or a bad energy, it’s how we approach that energy because for example, people are scared of an earthquake, for example. Earthquakes can kill people. But if there was no earthquake, we wouldn't have this amazing view. But not only that, we wouldn't have evolution. And an earthquake for Earth is us doing this. How many have died right now? But I'm relaxed. So there is no bad or good for the universe, it’s the release of energy. So what we put as bad energy or good energy is really a point of view, a perception of our morality and the universe doesn't have morality. I'm sorry if you have, but morality is something related to the place where we live and where we were born. It’s the point of view of one place, that's what means morality. It comes from the word more aid. It's a place where you live, and it's how the people see from the place you live. So if you move and you change your place, you change your morality. You change the way you see things and the universe doesn't have a place. So it doesn't have morality. So it's not good, not bad, it's just how you approach the energy. How do you want to leave that energy that you are experiencing? 

AUBREY: And we have the ability to access and adopt perspectives from these, when we really understand them. And I think we underestimate how much choice we have and how powerful we are to be able to adapt to this. If we choose, kind of like I did unconsciously. I was almost adopting a sixth dimensional perspective when I was really suffering and in that pain to say, there's something beautiful about this. It’s like we have the ability to do that all the time and sometimes it can manifest in physical form. My talk with Vylana talks a little bit about what we call the black sutra and this is a whole map that we created, this is how we transmute the sensation of pain into the sensation of pleasure. It's like, okay, we're going to use this energy and mix it with this energy and it's going to multiply. But with our own mind able to change that energy into a different type of energy, we have this power to be able to do that. It just depends on how we approach it. We can approach a cold plunge and be like, “Oh my God, it's going to be cold.” But as Wim Hof said, cold is an emotion. This is our idea. This is a sensation. And we shift our minds about it. We just shift it. Like, no, and adopt this other purview, this other perspective. And then all of a sudden it's exhilarating from the moment, like from the drop. And this is the power we have as creators. Like we can create far beyond what we thought that we could create. We can change things that we think are immutable by our own psyche. Yeah. Maybe I can't sing this umbrella up into the air, like maybe some of the ancients could, but I can change the way I look at a certain sensation or a certain energy and actually change it. 

MATIAS: Yes. Some recurring question is, is there free will? Like, can we choose? I always answer that no, we don't have free will. Of course not. But there is free will, which is very different. There is free will, but for those who remember that the body is a projection of the spirit and not the spirit is a projection from the body. This would be like this, the spirit was able to manifest the body by free will, but the body has matrix and patterns. So it is manifested through so many links that it is really difficult to untangle all the links that made up the matter. So once you are inside the matter, there is no free will as a person, as a personality, because the personality is a program that doesn't have free will because it's not the spiritual, so me, Matias, I don't have free will. The only way I can have free will is when I connect with my higher self. And I let my body be what it is supposed to be. So I am not ruled by someone else, I am connected with my real self that is using this. The problem is when I want to have free will being Matias, it's like telling the car, you can go and the car won't move because it needs many things from this being to be moved. So I don't know if it happened, usually to you that bad things happen when your ego is in control. And that doesn't mean that ego is bad, the ego is really useful, it's like the fuel for the car. So without ego, you can do anything. Ego can't drive. Ego is the fuel for driving, but it's not the driver, you understand the difference. So it's not about leaving the ego away. No, don't put the fuel in the front seat. So when we let the ego locate in the place where it belongs, which is the fuel for everything, but you leave your higher self being in control of the car that is the body, suddenly you have free will. You can choose, you can feel, you can decide, because it's not your personality in control. And that takes a long time to work on, because it's not that easy, of course. Because sometimes we believe that we are living in the present. For example, we say this is the present, but it's not. From the point of view of the fourth dimension, we are living in the past. Because everything that I am doing now, for example, when I speak, I do this. Why? And maybe you don't do that. Why? Because I'm Argentinian, Italian. So when I speak, if I don't do this, I die. It's my body saying, you have to move now. So it's my grandfather, my grandmother, everyone saying this in order to explain something. So I can’t control, I don't have free will. So when I speak, I move, it's my family moving. So it's my past. So I'm living my past right now. So my body is living in Italy at the moment. Because of this we have to go and heal our history, see our parents, where we come from to heal the energy, the feminine energy we have inside, the masculine energy we have inside to heal our history, our culture, our perceptions of religion, of spirituality. We have to do so many things to teach again to the body that is a tool that has been receiving all this data in order to work. But if I'm willing to be free. And to manifest and create by myself and not by others, I have to connect with something bigger than just me. All this is the fuel. I am able to speak a lot because in my fuel, there is Italian and Argentinian blood that makes me speak a lot and sometimes without any sense. That's what we do down there. So that's a tool that I have received from the past that is not free. That is something that conditions me to be what I am. But I can use that. That sometimes can be a problem for many people. I can use that to be useful from my free will, leaving my higher self, to be in charge of the situation. And sometimes I've heard what some people say, but I don't want to leave, that people be in charge of me. And that's the mistake that we make. If that person is someone else, like if someone in the universe is different from us, and actually we don't. As you said that I explained to you yesterday, everything is an organism. If the cells in the intestine don't match with the cells in the heart. If they don't work together with the cells of the brain, the body dies. And if every cell of the body wants to be the heart, like few people want. Like we want to go and live in the fifth dimension, the heart of everything. Well, that's a heart attack for the system. Too many people are enlightened. We need people working in the kidneys like this earth, people working with the shit. Otherwise we die. So we need cells living these realities too. So, because we are an organism, it's not like, oh, but they live better. They have to deal with many things. We have to deal with our part, but we are the body. So whatever we do here, even if it is very low in energy, it's useful for many other beings in the body which is the universe. So it's about how you decide to leave from your ego, trying to survive, or from the higher self, using what you have created as a tool.

AUBREY: And now you understand why I was so excited to have a chance to talk to Matias De Stefano. All right. We have 30 minutes for questions and obviously you guys will now be faced with the task that I was, I've been faced with for the past few days. What the hell do you ask a man who can give you an answer to pretty much anything? So, but let's do it. So we're going to put a microphone up over there and really, I just encourage people who really feel guided by this, guided from a deep place to ask whatever question comes through. I will let you know too, that I am going to have to immediately run off stage at two o'clock to make it to the sound check for our album release tonight. So I love you all. And I'll say goodbye right now, but let's go for 30 minutes here. 

ERICK: Hello. Thank you. If you could give one technique that every human on the planet would do every day for a month, what would it be? 

MATIAS: Breathing. Breathing properly. There are many techniques for breathing for sure, there are many, but that balances everything. Different ways of breathing is the best technique to balance any hormones, thoughts, and the spirit. Basically, I was telling yesterday that spirituality comes from the Latin word, spirare, that means breathe. So the only way to become spiritual is by breathing properly. So I guess that it would become aware of your breathing every day. 

ERICK: Did you mimic a type of breathing that I could copy, please? 

MATIAS: A copy? No, it's always through the nose, not the mouth. For the mouth is other things like releasing energy, but with the nose it is always from here and try to count as many numbers every day, one second more. Like one, maybe you can't. And then until how many you can, the farthest you can count when you are breathing in and then you hold the air the same amount of time, of those seconds. And then you release through the nose the same amount of time. So, start with four or three, and then every day add a new one. And always from here, not here.

ERICK: Perfect. Thank you. And if there's time at the end, could you tell us whatever your favorite story or myth is?

MATIAS: Story of myth?

ERICK: But I want to give other people a chance to ask questions, but there's time for the love of God. 

AUBREY: A final story. Just to briefly sum up for the podcast, it was a beautiful way that we drew all this intergalactic cosmic conversation together. And he said, look, there's three things: listen to what your body wants to eat, truly understand that if you want to see more clearly and have more light, eat food that has been touched by light, the fruits, the plants, these things. If you really want to connect with your spiritual self, breathe through your nose in the way you described, and if you want to raise your vibration, fucking laugh, like laugh. And those are the three things that he mentioned. So I just thought I would mention that and give you guys a cliff notes before the vodcast comes out, but I thought that was just really beautiful. 

PERSON #1: All right. So I have found geometry and different dimensional spaces to be very useful in talking about spirituality. Partially because I have a background in physics and mathematics. I did my PhD related to space time. And when I get to talking about our current reality. I usually get stuck on whether to refer to this as three dimensions or four dimensions because there are a lot of reasons to think of time. It's just another dimension that is intimately connected to the three spatial dimensions. So a lot of physics actually happens in four dimensional equations rather than three dimensions. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that. Whether you think of this as a three dimensional reality or a four dimensional reality. In this moment right here, a time slice is three dimensions but the full thing past and future included is four dimensions. 

MATIAS: Yes. We are actually already living in the four dimension completely but our brain hasn't been adapted to perceive the fourth dimension. So that's why we only perceive the third one, but actually all the reality is living through four dimensions. Of course, we cannot say there is a third and fourth and fifth and the second separated because all of them are together. What I would say is that we live in a multidimensional reality in which our present time is living in the fourth dimension, but our evolution is able to perceive only three. But many of us are already evolving to perceive the fourth. That's why we can remember, we can feel different things and so on. So I guess that science should look into spirituality to see what it's coming next. 

PERSON #1: I would really like to get some of my mathematician friends to kind of look at the mathematics of different dimensions and how that might relate to some of the stuff you're talking about.

MATIAS: Yeah, but four dimension rules. 

PERSON #1: That's what I've been feeling, but like, a lot of people only think of this as 3D, and I talk to them, and I'm like, in this four dimensional space, I've been jumping back and forth in the way I describe it. 

MATIAS: There’s a lot to talk about, we are living in a time of four dimensions right now. But most of the people cannot perceive it. 

AUBREY: Thank you, brother.

PERSON #2: Check, check. Love your talk. You said that the only way to really get free will is through the spirit, through something bigger than you. What do you think is the best practice to connect with? 

MATIAS: I guess that try to do or go and practice things that you would never do and break your head until you don't know who you are.

AUBREY: Welcome to Fit for Service Sedona. Good job.

MATIAS: Or go to India without insurance. 

AUBREY: Level two, good for service India without insurance, 

MATIAS: Something like that. That's why a lot of people go to India, to seek spirituality, to find the higher self. As an example, India represents, in the planet, the intestines of the planet which means that it tries to get all the shit out of you. So you can only take the essence. So that's why all the territory is doing that process. But you can do that just by changing for a moment, your life as something unexpected. Like you were saying about ayahuasca, for example, like it's something that breaks all the ego, the control, everything, to crack into you and allow you to speak with your real self. So it should be stuff that makes you forget who you are basically. 

PERSON #2: Got it. Thank you

PERSON #3: Hi, thank you for your talk. It was awesome. My question is when I was younger, I was in a life threatening car accident and I had experienced this feeling. I think it was when you were describing the dimensions of feeling everything or like knowing everything, but not having anything at all. And my interpretation of that was that I had an out of body experience, but now I'm like, huh, I don't know what I would call it. So, I'm just curious, how would you describe that and what's going on with the body or the soul when you do experience something like that?

MATIAS: Well, the body, the existence basically is a conjunction of data that's why they call it the matrix, but it's not because it's like a program, it’s like a network of data information all connected one to another. And so when you feel a hit of something, which is, for example, death, all this data creates a wave of expansion that moves everything and disconnects some data from another's. So this creates the feeling that you are expanding because really your body doesn't end here, it follows, it continues. So when you feel the heat of something, everything expands and suddenly all the information that is around in your magnetical field which is past information, future information, anything kind of moves so fast that you in one second can see all your life going through. And many other information from other levels of your consciousness that were there but not connected with your core. So what happens when you have this experience is that your body expands outside of your magnetical field, and you start to connect with information around and in other levels that you don't usually do because you're focused on what you are. And that's why it's so confusing and no time and everything, you start to see geometries and weird stuff. And when you die, basically happens the same, but it's continuous. It doesn't come back like a boom, but it continues. So the matter starts to spread in a different way, which is degradation, but it spreads and the soul spreads more and the spirit expands more. So it's a wave when it's happening, it's not the soul coming out of the body. It's like a wave that expands. And that's why you start to connect with data information and stuff.

AUBREY: Just a casual, complete explanation of a near death experience. No big deal. 

PERSON #4: One, I love you so much. So grateful for your work. Two, thank you for answering questions about my young trip to India that I didn't even know that I had. And my real question is, because I've heard you talk about your memories from other incarnations, I'm curious to know from this lifetime, what you're doing right here, right now with us. In a future incarnation or in another present moment. What would you want your legacy from this lifetime to really be? And what would you be sharing with people in that future gathering on a microphone being interviewed? What's alive in your heart about this moment now? 

MATIAS: Well, what I am doing right now in this lifetime is trying to connect some data that was disconnected and in some levels we need for that to be connected again so we could restart the system for this new time. So I described myself right now like, electrician? 

AUBREY: Electrician. 

MATIAS: Yeah. But for the future, I mean what do I expect? I love pedagogy and I love education more than anything. And that's why my life brought me to answer questions and try to explain stuff. So what I do here, besides my other task, being a portal.

AUBREY: He dropped that on the podcast yesterday. He's like, well, besides my main job, which is being a portal, I really like to teach, I was like, I just let it slide for a little while. And I was like, I can't hold it any longer, what did you just say?

MATIAS: So, that's my other job, but right now what I am doing is for me, it's education, which is not to educate people to know stuff, but educate means actually educo, educare in Latin. That means to bring what it's within outside. So that's the meaning of education. And so it's trying to help everyone remember what you already know, but you just forgot. So I would like that in the future. People could use all this as a basis for what they have come to do like a map. I'm trying to leave a map. 

AUBREY: You're doing a pretty damn good job.

PERSON #5: So grateful for your presence here. We met briefly in Egypt last year and I've been dying to ask you these questions. And so as Egypt is the throat chakra of the earth, and you've been speaking about the ley lines that are overlaid over this planet. What is the Holy Trinity, the matter and the pattern of the matrix of Egypt, Atlantis, and the stars, specifically Syria.

MATIAS: What is the link you mean between them? All the mother civilization that led us here was Sirius. We call it Inna. And Sirius is the place where the main civilization used to guide towards planets that were awakening. So in between Orion and Sirius, I thought of the universe as a place of harvesting consciousness data, as much data you can harvest the best for the universe. So they were looking for planets that were awakening. So Sirius was kind of the place that lead other civilizations to go to this kind of planet. And one of them was Earth. So Atlantean civilization was one of the first ones. That has been molded by entirely other beings from the stars to make this planet into a portal for that information and for many others that were trying to connect with these experiences here. It's a long story, but basically Atlantis spread along the planet to seek for those specific spots where every temple and pyramid would download information from Sirius and Pleiades and Orion. So that's why all the pyramids were built in that way along the planet and because of the links and information that Sirius gave to us.

PERSON #5: Thank you. 

MATIAS: The mother civilization. 

PERSON #6: I have some sense that death, the final crescendo, as well as the many preparatory opportunities before that, have more possibility of being pleasurable and productive. And I'm curious if there have been existences in which this were true. And if you can support us in remembering how to facilitate that 

MATIAS: To facilitate what? 

PERSON #6: That's being more pleasurable and or productive.

MATIAS: Oh, yes. Yeah. Many ancient cultures did that because I remember that in Atlantean culture when we were born or our kids were born. We used to say to them "welcome to life, the path to death", and the whole life was a preparation to die. So we were happy to wait for death because it was not something taboo that you shouldn't speak about or no, don't speak about death. It was like, yeah, remember that you will die. And that when you die, it will be amazing because after that you will expand and feel and all that. So we were raised from our childhood to not fear death because death was an expansion for the spirit. And the only way in which we can die with pleasure is if we live with pleasure. Because in the moment of death, everything that you have lived and your body has lived expands. So the other reality that you will live is according to the vibration that you have in your body. That's why we had to live a plentiful life, a happy life, in order to expand death. And when people were about to die, I remember some priestess doing this tantric massage to the body, making them feel pleasure singing songs, dancing, celebrating, everyone was dressed with colors it was not like goodbye. It was like, see you later and it will be great. And of course, they took some plant medicines. So the transition would be a trip, basically. 

PERSON #6: Thank you. 

AUBREY: I'm in. Sign me up. Fake note. 

MATIAS: That's a good way to die. 

AUBREY: That's the way. And it's just one of those interesting things because it makes, of course, perfect sense. I mean, Laura Huxley wrote that one shining moment where she was leading Aldous Through his death and it's such a touching piece to encounter, but I think he was on LSD and might've been another medicine as well. And she was just encouraging him, but it was at least this glimpse in a different way, but what you're describing when that becomes within the culture and you understand that the pleasure of death is woven with the pleasure of life and how to sing and to have a massage and energy, even sexual and all of the energy pushed in and the medicine and then the hymns and make this a joyous transition, like, fuck, of course–

MATIAS: When my grandmother was dying, I created a portal in the hospital. I put all Crystal's songs and colors and DNA. Rainbows everywhere. And all the nurses wanted to be in that room because I put some stuff below the bed to create a portal so she could go faster and everything. And it was happy. The room was happy. So that was the goal. To go happy. Otherwise it's to lower energy and you're trapping the other ones. 

AUBREY: Yeah. Makes sense. 

PERSON #7: Hi. Thank you so much for your service. My question is how would you instruct or guide our generation to heal generational womb trauma and not just for those who have a womb, but for those that came from a womb

MATIAS: Who came from a womb? Sorry.

AUBREY: All people, men and women, how do you heal the womb in all people? 

MATIAS: The womb. 

AUBREY: The womb. The place– 

MATIAS: Yeah. Well men have a womb called prostate, I don't know if you know, but male are a malformation of a woman. Sorry. The universe only signs feminine, only signs the feminine organisms. And then if evolution needs to make a reservoir of information, they create masculine. So basically all the masculine organs are a malformation of the feminine organs. So that means that we have them too. We have the ovaries in our testicles. We have the womb in our prostate. 

AUBREY: And a very large clitoris. 

MATIAS: A very large what? 

AUBREY: A very large clitoris. 

MATIAS: Depending on who. Isn't it? So the thing is that we are all women in origin, so we just have to reconnect with that memory because we all have been women and we all have been. So the one of the things that I guess is important to do is to speak about it with the child, with the children. Why? Because sometimes we don't speak about these things like menstruation, about orgasms, about all these kinds of things of sexuality, of the womb, of the clitoris and all these kinds of things. We don't speak with our kids about that. So they don't know how to handle that information. Sexuality, it starts inside the womb, not when you are a teenager, and it's something that needs to be normal, normally spoken, not only when it comes the time. So they can recognize what is sexuality, what is abuse for something, for example. And for example, in ancient times, we had the first sexual class when we were seven years old, like touch yourself, to know how you are, the limits of your body, all these kinds of things. So I guess that talking about the traumas, talking about the conflicts, and not only in therapy, but I had this problem today, I have this, or how do you have this? Or I don't know, just talking naturally about that, could help the body to recognize, Oh, this is not something that I have to keep to myself. So it doesn't create any trauma. This regarding the future, of course, so we could heal and release those tensions in the womb. And conceptually also, we are in a time that the feminine energy is coming back to power again. In ancient times, it was a matriarchal society. It was a matriarchal society that is kind coming back. And it will be like that in the future. And that society starts to speak about the matrix as something bad, for example, when someone hears about matrix, you think about bad things like, oh, the control and so on, but matrix means mother and also is the origin for the word womb, matris. So it's something that conceptually we have to talk more, that is the womb of the mother, is the creator, is the energy that we have all inside. And that the men also have this womb inside, but a little bit weird. So just talk about that, talk about sexuality with kids.

AUBREY: And we have about four minutes left. So we'll see if we get through one or two more questions. No, it's been amazing. Answered a lot of questions. 

PERSON #8: So I heard something one time that resonated. I just want to know your opinion or thoughts on this, that human consciousness evolves at the rate of our technology.

MATIAS: Yes, of course. In the last 50 years, we have been much more aware than in any other time. And there are some things that we don't recognize, because when we think about Atlantis, Lemuria, we think, oh, they were very high, and they have these connections and this technology. But no, they were riding donkeys too. I was saying that yesterday. We are different. So we are now evolving. I asked once to my guides, why now is the time to create this reconnection of the planet? To create the age of Aquarius? It’s because of, I don't know, some special things happening in the center of the universe. And there was one master that said, no, it's because you have internet.

PERSON #9: That's it. My question has to do with deja vu. It's the sort of the familiar feeling and intuitive gesture this has happened before. What in particular creates the similarities or groups that provide a deeper sense of understanding? 

MATIAS: Yeah, it's basically our brain is designed to look for the same data all the time. So it can look for an answer quickly. Patterns. Yeah. So everything in the universe works with patterns and nothing that will happen is different from what happened already. So it's just the same pattern repeated in a different way. So our brain is trying to look for those patterns, so it can say, “Oh, I have an answer for that.” So that's why Deja Vu is like an evolutionary solution for us to adapt faster to the future. 

AUBREY: Any more mysteries of the universe we want explained here? Last one, probably. 

PERSON #10: Thank you so much. Throughout my plant medicine journeys and studies and whatnot, I've become pretty fascinated with the mechanics of dimensionalities as it pertains to our mind, body, spirit complexes. And I was curious on your perspective because in my studies outside of experience, I don't know whether to describe this as contradictory information or whether somehow both are simultaneously true paradoxically, but do you view the soul, our mind, body, spirit complex as something that's simultaneously aware throughout multiple dimensionalities and densities or something that's on a path of evolution? And as we reach certain apex points, we kind of ascend into the next level. 

MATIAS: Well, all the experiences that you have when you open your consciousness, if I understood the question, are just tiny little slices of the truth, as I said at the beginning. So it's not the truth, it’s how you can perceive all this reality. So it's a process of evolution to connect with the different multidimensionality, which is never a correct truth. You cannot say, “oh, this is the truth.” So that's why you should never stop wondering, basically, because the key to every answer is a new question. You could never have a last answer. So that's why every answer will evolve according to your own evolution and perception of your experiences. So the universe will change also in the truth, according to what you experience. That's why we are creating God at the same time that God created us. All the time. 

AUBREY: Well, we may not ever have a last answer, but this will be the last question. Portunel. 

PERSON #11: Thank you, gentlemen. I would like to share in Eric's question of what is your favorite story or myth. 

MATIAS: Favorite story of what, did you say? 

PERSON #11: Favorite story or myth 

MATIAS: Or myth 

AUBREY: Story or myth from a different time, in a different life, in a different place.

MATIAS: Oh, from the past? 

AUBREY: Yeah. Or the future. 

MATIAS: Oh. Myth that I remember that is not from now. Or you mean? 

PERSON #11: Yeah. Something is one of the myths that you know 

AUBREY: Like one of your favorite myths that you know, that we don't know. A story that we aren't told in this reality. But the story that you know that you really resonate with that you think is a powerful story.

MATIAS: Well, I guess that's the story of the blue ones. When we were in Atlantis, they told us many stories about the blue ones that today we have in many cultures, like in India, in Mexico, you have these blue beings, like gods and goddesses. So for us, our main tradition was to become one of those blue ones that they said came from the star of Sirius. And they brought here something that we call ‘Protikta’. Protikta is a cube of energy that holds the energy of another galaxy that entered in a war with a species called Jakob. And they were trying to reach the energy of the core of some of these worlds and these blue ones took them inside a box and brought it to somewhere that nobody would go because it was a low frequency planet, which was Earth. So nobody would come here because the Jacoptic would die just if a human left. Because we had so much energy and they were so low in energy that if a human says, “ha”, they have a heart attack. So they would never come here. So the story says that through Sirius, they ask where is the best place to keep this energy that can transform everything into divine again, to matter, into the essence of the matter. So they said, “well, we have a planet that is evolving and that you can keep it there and they will adore these and they will never touch it.” So they brought this here and they hid it in the Atlantic ocean, in some islands. And they built an entire population called Tabata that was protected by the blue ones to take care of this energy that was blue. And only them could take care of this. And it was in the hills and the mountains. And then the humans started to create something around until the blue one said, it's time to share this with the humans. So they started to share this and created Atlantis. And then the energy that they were using there, made the civilization grow up and they were guided by these blue ones to build everything that we know today. And they say, everything started because of this blue cube that is hidden in the Atlantic Ocean waiting for us to be aware and know how to use it. So, the story said that we have to be ready, prepare and laugh more. They said to the kids, we have to laugh, we have to love in order to take care of the blue cube that keeps us all connected to the universe. It was one of the stories they tell us. 

AUBREY: Thank you so much, brother. Thank you, Tiago, for coming as well. And it's been a real pleasure. Thank you, everybody. We have begun with the most impressive unofficial start for the Fit for Service Summit of all time.