Rob Dial is an incredibly successful coach, who specializes in coaching coaches. He’s also a top 100 podcaster, speaker, and creator. This was a wide ranging conversation that included our lessons from plant medicine, the current polarization in society, pathways to growing, and of course all things coaching. Rob Dial reveals the formula to becoming a highly competent coach with a lucrative career. I was even convinced it is time to get my own coach!

AUBREY: Rob!

ROB: Hey, buddy.

AUBREY: We've traded seats.

ROB: We have.

AUBREY: And now here we are. One thing we were just talking about, and it's something that we both firmly agree is that we come into life And we're an incredibly complicated animal, And the operating manual for this animal is not provided. It's not that it doesn't exist. It's just that's not what we're taught. Our parents don't know And certainly in school, they don't give a fuck. We're not taught how to breathe, We're not taught how to think, we're not taught how to deal with our emotions. I mean, yes, learning how to read is important in the young and learning how to add basic multiplication tables, shit like that, that's all helpful. But so much of what we learn is nonsensical compared to what the really important stuff is that we can learn about ourselves and learn how to navigate life.

ROB: You got to think about how we're given no manual for the brain that we have, and they don't teach any of this shit in college, they don't teach any of it when we're younger. I was talking with somebody actually literally about you the other day and how you were going and doing ayahuasca and someone's like, "Again?" I was like, "You don't understand there's still so much that we have to learn about ourselves." I was listening to an interview not too long ago and someone was talking about the fact that no matter how much you learn about yourself, there's always another level. I had a mushroom ceremony that I did when I was in Sedona, I was sitting by the creek and I had this whole visual of this rose that just never stopped blooming. It would just bloom and then the petals would fall off and then it would bloom again. That's how your life is like. Whenever you find something new about yourself, there's always another level to yourself that's deeper and deeper and deeper. I think the most intriguing thing that we can do is go, "Alright, well, let me learn about myself. Let me learn what my triggers are." Because if I'm triggered, I'm not free, wherever it is. So if my mom says something and I'm triggered. It's like Ram Dass says, he thought he was enlightened and then he came back from India, and his dad picked him up in the car ride. He's got his big long beard, he's got his white robe, and his dad, 15 minutes into it. He thinks he's like Buddha or Jesus almost and his dad goes, "So when are you going to get a job?" He immediately was triggered by that.  You think that you have gotten to this level of I know myself and then you start to learn more about yourself, and you realize you don't know yourself at all. The thing that intrigues me the most is why am I the way that I am? You seem like a very philosophical guy as well. I sit alone in silence for a long time and I'm like, "Why do I think this way? Why do I have this tick? Why am I triggered when people say this to me or when I act this way?" What else are we supposed to do? For me, that seems like the reason why we're here is to fully discover ourselves. The way to discover yourself is by going deep into it and going well, "Why do I work this way?" There's no manual given to you saying hey, this is how Aubrey Marcus works. But when you go and do the Ayahuasca ceremonies, you start to realize why Aubrey Marcus works the way that he does.

AUBREY: It's a funny thing. I think people try to reduce a human being to a machine. In a machine, if you could patch a software issue, it's fixed forever. You fixed it. It's a machine. But we're not machines in that way. We're constantly interacting with the environment. So just because I did ayahuasca when I was 30, and had a profound experience doesn't mean that in accumulating all of those years, it doesn't even have to be that many years, it could be a month, it could be a week. New interactions will come on, new energies I'll take on, new thought patterns, new viral programmes I'll take on. There's so much to clean plus there's even layers and layers and layers of depth that go all the way down to your birth. This was something I was talking about with my family yesterday. So Stan Grof, who I'm sure you're familiar with, at least on a cursory level, has a theory about the Basic Perinatal Matrices. He says so much of our life is shaped by what happens during our actual birth. I was going through this and we were going through all of us in the family. There's certain patterns that we haven't been able to really break based upon this. I'd love to dive into you and see if this applies. So BPM I, Basic Perinatal Matrix I is you're in the womb, everything is good, your mom's taking care of you, you're being nourished, the umbilical cord is supplying your food, you're swimming in this float tank of endlessness. Of course, there are boundaries, but you're really contained and cared for. The heartbeat is there, beating, this warm rhythmic heartbeat. Of course, it's tumultuous when the mother's stressful. Things can get chaotic there. But, generally this is a utopia experience for a young infant.  Then the water breaks, fuck! All chaos, your world is collapsing in around you. Your fluid home now, everything is vacuum tight close to you, and you don't know where to go and you don't know what to do. The mother's in stress, everything gets really chaotic, the heartbeat becomes faster and more erratic. What the fuck is going on? 

ROB: It's like a horror movie.

AUBREY: It's a horror movie. It's a horror movie for a fetus. BPM III. So that's BPM II. BPM III is the birth canal opens. "Oh, I know what I gotta do. I got to get out of here and I got to fight. I gotta get out of here. The mom's fighting with me. Mom's pushing, you're going, you got your head, you're like a torpedo, you're like I'm getting out of here. I'm fucking getting out of here. You move through that matrix. And then BPM IV is the ecstasy and agony of that first breath. Lights! Oxygen fills your lungs, it's cold. It's this whole new world. Your tiny myopic little world where you're self-contained, it just burst into all of this, "Wow! We're in a whole other reality!" And, "Whoa! I'm a separate being." It's that moment. It's the ecstasy and the agony of that moment of separation from the mother. In a fluid process that all happens like that. You experience all of these things, and you move through them with as much grace and love as possible. But for so many of us, first of all, the birth process is intense. That BPM IV, I really have a lot of respect for the waterbirths because it's just a nicer, rounding the edges a little bit because you're birthed into more fluid, and there's loving people around you, but that sterile cold hospital, fluorescent lights, being jabbed with a vaccine, fuck, it all went real bad. So that's something that's pretty ubiquitous, unless you're doing a home birth. Even still, it's still like a fluid progression. But for so many of us like myself, let me talk about my story. So my mom goes into labor, obviously a great experience, BPM I is great. Water breaks. My mom's, she's an ex pro-athlete and she's a badass. She wasn't stressed out. She's got this. Gets to the hospital. Her doctor's asleep So they have a nurse who's trying to deliver me. She's in excruciating labor, pushing for hours. It's the middle of the night, starts at 2:00 a.m. Middle of the night and it's not happening, it's not happening. Then four hours later, mom's like, "You've got to get the doctor. Something is wrong. I know myself. It's not that I'm not pushing hard enough. I know myself." The nurse is like, "Okay." Goes and gets the doctor. Doctor comes in immediately and he's like, "What the fuck? His head is stuck on her pelvis." It can't go out. "Bones are stuck on his head." They can't use the forceps, it doesn't matter. It's not soft tissue. It's hard tissue. So emergency C-section, I got pulled out. So my pattern is where I get stuck in my life is that I will start fighting for something and I'll fight like hell but I don't believe that I'm going to succeed unless there's a divine intervention. 

ROB: Really?

AUBREY: So I'll go like hell and I'll fight and I know that I'm a fighter and I know that I will fight because I suppose that I was fighting with my mom and my mom was fighting and we were in the synchronicity of we're fighting together, but it didn't work. I tend to go fall into this hopelessness. It doesn't matter how much I fight, it's not going to work unless some divine intervention, aliens, God, something comes and happens, which is represented by this emergency C-section where all of a sudden, the fighting didn't matter and I was just getting rescued and pulled out. So that pattern is played out for my whole life where I'll fall into this feeling of hopelessness, like my fight won't work.

ROB: Do you think that's why you like psychedelics? Do you feel like it is almost like that hand of God coming in and helping you? Do you feel like that relates in some way?

AUBREY: I mean psychedelics are definitely like the divine helping me. Maybe. Maybe that plays in. I never thought of it like that but I wouldn't put it past it. It's interesting though, especially in this last Ayahuasca, it was just so fucking hard, man. It was so hard. I had to use every coping strategy. I had to tap and shake and vomit and sweat and self-soothe. It was beautiful because it forced me to adapt to incredibly difficult circumstances. But it was fighting and being rescued at the same time. So it was somewhere in between. Maybe it was smoothing the edges and maybe that's what I need is I need to struggle and be successful. Ultimately, there was triumph at the end of these. Fuck, I made it through. I made it through. It wasn't like ayahuasca was like, "And now it's going to be easy." It was never that. It was hard, hard, hard, hard, hard, hard until I fought my way through. It's the hopelessness that I think is the thing I need to shed. I think to really transcend that, you have to go into a full rebirth, a real rebirth, deep, down to the deeper layers. Maybe that's why I keep going too is, I haven't hit that full reset of that initial pattern that just stamped me with these with this sense. So I would ask you, I'd flip it around and see if it applies. Who knows? So this is just Stan Grof's theory. It seems to work for me but do you know anything about your birth process? And can you extrapolate that?

ROB: Surprisingly, for my mom, it was pretty quick and easy. It's interesting, because as you're saying, you get stuck... From what I know, I wasn't stuck in any sort of way, and it wasn't really much of a hard process. Then the second thing is I don't ever feel like I can't do something. The opposite of what I want doesn't exist in my reality. I think that, in my mind, is the secret to manifestation. People can say, I love affirmations, and they can meditate and they can visualize and all that stuff but there's ultimately, this subconscious under-workings, I was talking with someone the other day. Conscious, subconscious, deep subconscious. We can understand our subconscious and then sometimes there's things that are so deep that we don't even know that are there--

AUBREY: In the deep unconscious.

ROB: So deep. That's usually what you come up with whenever you do some sort of psychedelics where it pops up and maybe there is seeing your birth again, or seeing something pop up that happened was a child when you completely forgot. It's that deep unconscious. But for me, I have this hardcore belief in myself. I was also alone a lot as a kid. My sister is six years older than me. By the time I was nine, I was like a latchkey kid. I'd let myself in, hang out by myself all the time. My dad was an alcoholic by the time I was nine, so he was always at bars or just disappeared. My mom was always working. I think through that and then also, possibly, through the birthing process, bring this up, I just developed this, "I won't lose." My best friend says, he calls me, I'm like a cockroach. I just don't give up on things because I don't see the opposite of what I want as a reality in this. I remember, literally, when COVID came out, I did a podcast episode in March of last year. I was like, "I will not get it, I'm not going to get it. There's no fucking way on this earth I'm going to get it." I'm telling myself and my cells that if it does come in contact with it, I will not get it. They will kill off whatever it comes in contact with. To this day, I still haven't gotten it and I'm not vaccinated, I'm not taking those best protection. I'll do what needs to be done. It's not like I'm staying inside of my house all the time but, in my mind, there's never been an opposite of what I want. I think that that's the key to manifesting stuff. And from what I've been told, my birthing process was pretty is. I was in and out and now I'm gone.

AUBREY: For me, I know how to fight but I'm always surprised when I win, not in sports and stuff. I have a lot of confidence in myself and that stuff because I've proven it in many different ways. Like if I step on the pickleball court, I'm pretty sure I'm going to win. If we play ping-pong, I'm like, "Yeah, I got this." Things with Onnit, it was always like, "Whoa, this worked! I'm going to win!"--

ROB: I do get surprised with those things. For sure.

AUBREY: Whoa! This is fucking wild. It's interesting. And your birth process being so smooth, there's no imprinting. I think that's beautiful in a way. Your imprinting has come from other sources. Because the process was smooth, there's no place which you're perpetually stuck. It's not like you get a free ride. You got a whole hose of other shit you got to deal with.

ROB: I got an easy birth because I got fucked later on in life. That's what it was.

AUBREY: We all get our struggles and that's also one of the things that I really hate is when people say, "Easy for you to say." How the fuck do you know anybody else's experience? It's all subjective. Easy for you to say Anthony Bourdain. He hung himself. Easy for you to say fucking whoever. You don't know. You don't know what's inside. Everybody's struggle is subjective. There's no way you can say this person's... You don't know. It's all internal. Yes, there's really hard external things that people have had to deal with, impossible for us to even imagine the external challenges that some people have had to face whether it's Auschwitz or racism or genocide, is sexism to the extreme, whatever. There's awful shit, I'm not trying to deny that. But all too often we try to pretend like we know somebody else's experience. We don't.

ROB: For sure, I saw, I think it was Gabor Mate, I saw a quote that he had yesterday. It was like, "People think of trauma when they go back to..." I love his stuff for trauma. I don't know if there's anybody else who's better in the world for trauma.

AUBREY: I think he's the best.

ROB: People think of trauma. These are all trauma, verbal, sexual, physical abuse, all of the stuff that you just named, those are all trauma. But the most common trauma is some form of neglect emotionally by someone's parents. You don't see that physically on someone. There's no scars, which sometimes make those even harder to work through. They go into that unconscious and subconscious. Okay, I know that this thing happened to me because, physically, I have a bruise from it. That might be easier to work through than something where I didn't realize, there's a friend of ours that's local here. He's a relationship therapist. He's like, "Hey, you and Lauren should come in and just chat." I was like, "Cool," and we started chatting. I had no idea. We started talking about childhood. My mom's amazing. She was incredible. She's the strongest fucking person I've ever met. I've learned everything from her in that way. But because of the fact that my dad was gone so much, she had to work, obviously, to get us to live and to be able to pay our bills and everything. He goes, "Yeah, you were neglected." I was like, "No, I wasn't neglected. There was nothing wrong." He goes, "No, you were emotionally neglected." I was like, "Oh yeah, that resonates." I was like, "Fuck, I've never thought of that before." But it's not her fault. My trauma comes from, I can see it popping up in different relationships where I'm not fully there because of the fact that I didn't have somebody that was fully there for me when I needed somebody the most. But you don't see that physically on somebody's body. And there's a lot of that that happens to people. When people are out there, and they think my trauma is not that much. It could be.

AUBREY: The game of comparing trauma is a losing game. You just can't. You just don't know and you don't know how sensitive a person was. It's like saying some people go to war and they come back, and they're like, "War was awesome." And some people are scarred for life, deep PTSD, dissociations. Same war, same set of circumstances, but it's a different person. We just don't really know so just having respect for each individual struggle, I think it was East Forest who reframes things as someone's going through something challenging instead of trying to judge them and justify whether they should be going through something challenging or not, just recognise, on face value, the challenge that they're going through and say, "Well, that's a brave soul taking on this challenge", because the challenge they take on individually is taking on that challenge collectively.

ROB: I don't know if you've ever felt this way: when you get a few days into an Ayahuasca ceremony, you look at the people around you and you're like, "I fucking respect you, the fact that you're still showing up to this..." I've seen people go, they've been wrecked. They still show up and I'm like, "I don't know this person, didn't know them four days ago, but I love this person for showing up." There's people that are the biggest personalities and the most badass hardcore people, that is what they try to show on Instagram and all that stuff. They won't sit down and do an Ayahuasca ceremony. But Sally, who's 66 years old is fucking showing up for ceremony three and four. I'm like, "I love this woman. She's way stronger than any guy that tries to act like he's the biggest, baddest thing on Instagram and show stuff off." You realize people are stronger than you think but they've also been through a lot more than you think. I think the journey of working on yourself gives you compassion for everybody because you don't know what anybody's going through, ever. said this when you were on my podcast but the thing that stuck with me the most was I went through four ceremonies and then we had breathwork, breathwork, breathwork the last three nights. Then last night, the lady who was the most quiet, sweetest lady... I went and did ayahuasca with my mom. I always talk with my mom and stuff and she never shares after any of the breathwork, any of the ceremonies, any of that stuff. She raised her hand last day and she's like, "I've thought about killing myself every single month, sometimes every week, sometimes every day and sometimes every hour." She goes, "In that breathwork ceremony, I met my inner child, and realise that when I kill myself, I kill her and I can never kill myself." It doesn't even exist in my reality. You see someone who's quiet and sweet and think they may not have gone through a whole lot, but when you see that, you're like, "This woman's been thinking about killing herself hundreds of times." You just can't have compassion for people out there because you have no idea what they've gone through.

AUBREY: I think, one of the most valuable aspects of Ayahuasca. Of course, the healing is profound. Being able to meet your inner child and see her and feel her, feel him, see him, talk to them, it's one of the many things it's just possible. You can't go in expecting that, but it's possible. All of these things are possible. It works in such a magnificent and mysterious way. But the one thing that's reliable, is it's going to be fucking hard. There's such virtue in the difficulty of it. That's what I was thinking in the middle of it. This was definitely the hardest sit with ayahuasca I've ever done, more physically than emotionally or mentally. I felt like I was a 110-watt bulb and ayahuasca was like, "How's 500?" I was like, "No! What the fuck? I can't hold it." And so I was speaking in tongues and shaking and sweating and puking and shitting. Fuck! How I do get this extra 400 watts out of my system? I can't hold it. Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, the visions are amazing. Yes, I feel God all around me. But I'm a fucking little light bulb, and you're going to explode me! But in that, I was like, "Man, how rad?" How rad to go through something this hard and then, as I said, form those adaptations. I have developed a really sweet and loving voice that I've never had. I lean more towards that David Goggins, Cameron Hanes, keeps hammering, stay hard, fucking pushing through, you pussy. What's wrong with you? Fucking anxious again, you little bitch? That's what my default is but in this, that didn't work. I was too vulnerable. I was too stripped. I was too shaken, just thirsty and tired. I just wanted a blanket and some lip balm and someone to fucking wipe my face when the puke was everywhere. The voice that came through was like, "It's alright. It's alright, babe." It was really sweet. It's like, "It's alright, love. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. I know. I know. It's okay. It's okay. You're going to make it through like you always do. It's okay. I know, I know. I know." I'd feel it and feel it. "I know. I know. I know. It's hard. I know. I know, babe." It was like really talking like I would to a lover. That voice was what got me through. And that voice, I can now hear it. I'm prone to feeling anxious like am I doing enough for the world, is going on. I'll have that voice come back instead of being, "God! Anxious again? How much more fucking work you want to do on yourself? Maybe change strategies," this really aggressive, masculine voice, it says, "Okay, I know. I know you're anxious right now. I know. It's hard. Just take some deep breaths. That's it. Deep breath." It's so nice but it's the difficulty and making it through the difficulty that shows that you can go through the difficulty and then you learn different ways to cope with that difficulty So when life throws difficult things at us, which it always does, you're ready.

ROB: But how amazing is that, that you now have this new little voice inside of your head to speak with you the way that you actually want to be spoken to or actually that you probably need to be spoken to as well. I always think back to when I was a kid. If you look at videos of me, there's a video of me at my third birthday party and we were watching a few months ago and she was laughing because everyone else is playing and I'm in the sandbox by myself just playing with toys. I was a quiet, sweet kid that just brought my mom rocks and brought my mom flowers. How would you speak to that kid when he's really sick and throwing up? Probably the way that ayahuasca came into your head and started speaking to you. As a guy, you have to be hard and you have to kick ass and be strong and all of that stuff. Then you go through. For me when my father passed away when I was 15, he passed away on a Thursday, I went back to school on Monday and I didn't tell anybody, not even my best friends. I've learned to develop this, don't talk about it, don't be a bitch, nobody cries, any of that stuff. There's the real Rob and then there's the Rob that I've developed. What's crazy is the Rob that I have developed, has gotten me to a certain level of success or whatever it is that you want to call it in life but then it only gets you to a certain place. To get you to the next level of it, it's like I need to reintegrate the childhood Rob and rediscover that because that's what's actually going to get me to whatever my next version of myself is. The way I like to think of it, I'm very visual, it's like if you were to take and just draw a line straight up, your birth is right here and then all the way straight up just a straight line is if you were to go through life and be perfect, nothing ever happens to you. That's your perfect true self. But at some point in time, there's a break. There's something that happens, there's a trauma, and there's some sort of fake self that takes us off-course, like this is who we truly are. It takes us off course. We go so far. Some people never wake up to it and then some people wake up to it and they're like, "Who the fuck am I?" It's like Jim Carrey talking about people that are in depression. Obviously, there's chemical imbalance and stuff, but a lot of times he says, "You just need deep rest from who you've become. You don't want to play that character anymore." Have you seen Jim & Andy?" Oh my god, it's fucking incredible. So Jim & Andy. Jim Carrey plays Andy Kaufman in the movie, "The Man on the Moon", and he plays as a method actor, which means he never breaks character. So he's Jim Carrey playing a real life person who died 20 years before but Andy Kaufman also played other characters. So he played Tony Clifton. What would happen is he would literally take on, for three months, four months, whatever it was, he never broke the character of Andy Kaufman unless he was playing somebody else. It gets real crazy where he died abruptly, had some sort of cancer, I think it was lung cancer that he had. And his family, Andy Kaufman's family, comes in and has therapy sessions with Jim Carrey acting as Andy Kaufman, having therapy sessions. So not only is he playing the character, he's literally having therapy sessions with the family of Andy Kaufman. So he's deep into it. Then people ask what happened to Jim Carrey--

AUBREY: He's blurring the line between acting and seance?

ROB: For sure. Then what happens is the movie ends, and he like, "Alright, now I got to get back to being Jim Carrey," and he's like, "Who the fuck is Jim Carrey like? I don't remember what I like. I don't remember what I don't like. I don't remember what triggers me. I don't remember what pisses me off." So people are always like where did he get this big spiritual awakening? It started on this movie. What's cool about it, they did a whole documentary. As the movie's rolling, there's the documentary happening at the same time. So you get to see what he's doing the whole time. But what happened was he woke up. That's his waking up point of going, "Oh, here's where I actually would have been had I just gone to this path: perfect birth to amazing life to perfect death, most enlightened being, a light being, just disappears into the ether, whatever it is." Turn into a unicorn or whatever. But he wakes up at this point and he goes, "I got to get back here." I feel like for people like us who have had some sort of awakening, if you want to call it that, if I'm playing a character that's not who I truly am, I'm trying to get back to this before I die, if possible. I might never get back to that straight line, this is my perfect being but when you say that's the voice that you heard, that's the voice of little three-year-old Aubrey that needs to hear something, that's your mom coming in and saying, "It's okay, sweetie, you're just throwing up; you ate something bad." We need that comfort and as men, it's hard to be like, "Can you just speak sweet to me?" Can I speak sweet to myself, but that's really what we need to heal the last little, I don't want to say last little bit but whatever it is you were still working towards.

AUBREY: It's good to have both available. If I'm in a hard kettlebell workout with Juan Leiha and Tim Kennedy, I'm not going to be like, "It's okay, sweetie. I know--"

ROB: Hey Juan, can you speak to me sweetly, please? 

AUBREY: No. Fuck it. Let's go. There's a place for all of those. Certainly I don't want to denigrate how it's actually helped build my life because it certainly has. It comes with a cost and it's not always applicable. It certainly wouldn't have been helpful in the Ayahuasca ceremony. It's certainly not helpful when I feel anxious throughout the day, or I start to feel a little sad. I don't need tough love then I just need love. But one thing, I really love how you're talking about the real Rob or the real Aubrey. I've been really feeling that as well. There's a real us and I feel like our mind actually insulates us from access to the real us because if we get access to the real us, it's the most powerful force that we have. It's going to really dramatically change our life if we really adopt the real us. I could feel this in the last Ayahuasca where I stepped into the real Aubrey. In night two, I stepped into the real Aubrey and it was fucking overwhelming because I was like, "Fuck!" It's not that I was going to do anything outwardly different, but the person doing all of the things was so radically different that everything that I was doing was different. Every conversation would have been different. Every podcast was different. Every newsletter was different. Everything shifts, maybe just a little bit, 5%, 10%, I'm not that far off to the real Aubrey but it was significant enough that every different direction I looked, I was like, "Fuck!" How I love my wife, how I show up for my family, everything was different and it was overwhelming. It's almost so overwhelming you're like, "Fuck, I can't step into the real Aubrey right now. It's too much to handle. I got to ease my way. I got to ease my way closer to it." Then there's also some way in which if you give access to somebody else to the real you, it's scary, it's really scary. If you give access to a projection, well, you can always trash that projection. Well, you think that about the fake Aubrey? Fuck it. That Aubrey is not even real. So fuck you, anyways.

ROB: You broke up with the fake Aubrey? Whatever. That's not even the real one, dude. I'm not hurt by the fake one.

AUBREY: Yeah, you can fucking dump the fake Aubrey all you want. I'll dump the fake Aubrey. I'll dump the fake Aubrey right now. I dumped him before you dumped. It's really the most vulnerable and powerful place to arrive. I think that's certainly an intention of mine is to head into that so I'm really embodying that because there's a real freedom and aliveness to that. As if we're being the fake version of ourselves, we're not fully connected with our heart, which is our true essence, our true center; it doesn't extend all the way through these avatars we build. So we're not really living our life fully.

ROB: Yeah. And from a place of absolute love. I was listening to Ram Dass and Ram Dass was talking about how when you love somebody, what you're actually loving is what they're bringing out of you. When we look at someone that we deeply love, it's not that we don't love that person, we do, but what they're doing is they're showing us a part of ourselves that we have access to at all points in time. I actually listened to the episode you have with Peter Crone when he was talking about you and Sedona, where you don't want to lose that house because you've had so many spiritual awakenings and amazing things out there and he's like, "That's just the house and that's just Sedona, but they gave you access to a part of you that's there all the time." It's about us being consciously aware of why can't I be in love with the person that's sitting on the side of a road asking for money? What would the truest version of Rob do right now? I have a good friend who is an incredible human, like one that I want to be. He loves people more than anybody else that I know. He'll give him $1 and he'll look them dead in the eye. And he'll go, "Hey man, do you need a hug?" And then sometimes they say yeah, and he goes, "Alright, cool." He puts his car in park at a stoplight, and will get out and give that person a hug. And then he'll go, "Hey, do you need some food? Do you want to go get lunch or something?" He said 50% of the time they say yes and he'll go take a homeless person lunch. He's like, “I don't care about when I park my car if I get to people behind me late.” Because in reality, what are they seeing? They're seeing a person who doesn't know another person that people judge all the time, getting out and just giving this person a hug, and then having them hop inside the car. That could be changing their day in some sort of way. And makes me realize, I've got so much more work, because there's a part of me that's like, "Well, what if they smell inside of my truck? You know what I mean?

AUBREY: Totally. It's okay for all of the people listening who are like, "Fuck, I like my passenger seat." It's all right. We all have those feelings.

ROB: It's how can I get myself to that level of, I don't care if they smell in my truck. I don't care because what matters to me is that person is just another version of me, going through things that's probably even harder than what I've gone through. And more than anything else, the only thing that's going to fix, not only the thing that's going to fix them, but what will help them in this moment, is by giving that person some love and realizing that somebody here wants him to be here.

AUBREY: The true Rob and the true Aubrey and the true... What's your friend's name?

ROB: Ta.

AUBREY: Ta? 

ROB: Yeah.

AUBREY: Yeah, the true Ta, they are always living in the state of interbeing where they know that they are connected to all life, all people, the earth itself. We all know that. The true version of us knows that. It feels like it. It's always true. The fake version of us, the person, the ego, the ego says I am not all of that. It's important to have the balance of both, but the true version knows. When we take that action, it's because we know that's us and in the service to us externally, we're serving us internally because you cannot separate those things. I think this is also a big myth with this self-identification. It's me, me and then there's the rest of the world. Who do I trust? Me. Well, who is you? Right now, me and you are an amalgamation of humans because we're both in each other's heart field, we're looking each other in the eye, the mirror-neuron effect is happening--

ROB: I'm breathing in your used oxygen. 

AUBREY: That's right. We're merging to some degree. And then also with everybody else in the room also. We cannot separate ourselves perfectly from our environment anyways, from a scientific standpoint, certainly from a spiritual standpoint, from all of these standpoints, so softening the edges around individuality and recognising our interbeing. So when you're talking shit to someone on Instagram, that's you, man. That's you. So it doesn't matter which side you're on. There's a lot of polarity right now. Someone's like, "Fucking sheep." Okay, that's you. They disagree with their fucking super pro vax mandates, fine but it's still you. If you're trying to denigrate them, it doesn't matter. And they're saying, "You're fucking spreading this virus and killing my grandma." No, I'm you. This is the way to separate all of this. We have to abandon the myth of separation and recognise our interconnectedness with that sense of love. That's the way out of this fucking gigantic polemic mess.

ROB: Yeah, and if you had that person's exact life, you would think exactly what they think. So if you look at somebody and you are pro or anti or whatever it is, I have to remind myself all the time, number one, I started unfollowing a ton of people because I can feel the toxicity of even just certain posts that aren't supposed to... Whether it's them or whether it's me in my reaction to it, it's just not worth messing up my energy for the day, right? If I would have had that person's exact life that I think is such an idiot, that thinks completely different than myself, if I would have had their exact same life, I'd probably think in the exact same way as them

AUBREY: And there's studies that show that. The number one determination of someone's religion is their parents' religion. All of these things that we think are I believe in this. Okay, why? Because fucking everybody around you believed it.

ROB: Yes. Exactly. When you look at it, and you're like, "Alright, I don't know what they've gone through..." Going back to what we talked about towards the beginning, I don't know what they've gone through. That lady who had the breathwork ceremony, met her in a chat. I don't know what she's gone through. So she might be super pro at something and I'm anti. But she's gone through a lot of shit that I've never gone through, I've gone through a lot of shit that she's never gone through. And if we switch places, we probably still have the exact same thoughts. If I was her, I'd have her exact same thoughts and her exact same pro or anti. And she was in my situation, would've had the same one as well. I don't know what they're going through so my immediate thing that I'm trying to get myself to go to, is just compassion. I don't know them. I don't know what they've been through but I can still try to, at least, show them some sort of love, and not fight it. Because if I fight it, that's not going to do anything. It's not going to make them feel better, it's not going to make me feel better. So if I go and fight this person on Instagram, I've never been like, "I'm so glad that I spent 10 minutes going back and forth with that person on Instagram comments." Never. I've never been like, "That was a great use of my time and I feel amazing right now after doing it." 

AUBREY: I have occasionally, only when with loving patients--

ROB: Oh, yeah, I'm talking about back and forth.

AUBREY: But there's a way that you can and then someone will be like, "Hey, man, I'm really sorry. I just had a fucking bad day." That's the rare exception. It usually is just creating more antagonism and separation. Occasionally, you can collapse it.

ROB: We should notice the separation. Anything that makes us feel separate from somebody else, we should try to stop doing it. It's pretty much at its simplest. If you want to put it that simple. If something makes me feel separate from you, then I should probably stop doing that thing because it's not making you feel better and it's not making me feel better.

AUBREY: Also, there's a sticky fucking trap where we are constantly trying, as the ego, which only knows itself in relative position. That's the way the ego works. It knows itself in relative position. Are you a good basketball player? I don't know. Who's playing basketball? The only way you know if you're good or not is comparing yourselves to the other players? That's what we do as an ego, comparing each other, comparing ourselves to everybody else in life. So we'll find a new game, this game is morality and this game is. How can I be better than that other person? So many ways. We're just thinking that we're arguing for our beliefs, but what we're really arguing for is being better than someone else. If you can take down someone who's admired or popular or whatever else, someone in the public eye. "Oh, you're better than them?" "I'm better than Joe Rogan, because Joe Rogan's out there promoting Ivermectin but I wouldn't. So I'm better than him."

ROB: Fucking horse dewormer.

AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. So then they get to say when they go after him, they get to be better than Joe Rogan. The ego likes that. Well, he may have done all these awesome things, but I'm fucking better than him.

ROB: It comes from a lack of self worth is really what it comes to. I notice myself going, I want to compare myself." Really instead of somebody going on saying, "Oh, Joe Rogan's doing X, Y, Z," the best thing to do is go, "Okay, I'm noticing that I'm trying to bring him down, so that I feel above him." The real question is when was the first time I remember feeling not worthy. That's what we're going to. 

AUBREY: That's it.

ROB: It's not that I need to bring him down and make myself feel better. I need to go back to the immediate moment where I felt unworthy because I didn't get love from my mom or because I didn't get recognition for getting an A or whatever it is that somebody didn't get, where they didn't feel worthy. Joe Rogan's not the problem. It's my lack of worthiness that I need to work through. It's a lot harder to work through that. I was having this conversation yesterday where it's a lot easier not to eat healthy. It's a lot easier not to work out. All of that stuff is easier. Life is either easy now or hard later, or hard now and easy later. Most people just tend to choose the easy route. If people would be more aware, am I choosing the easy route by trying to bring this person down versus actually looking at the core of myself as to why I don't feel worthy? That's what really people need to get to. It's just a lot easier for me to go, "Yeah what an idiot? He just did this thing. He's got a $300-million contract for his podcast? Well, that should have made him feel like an idiot. I'm above this guy who makes a shitload more money than I do."

AUBREY: You're in the business of many things, one of one of which is coaching coaches. The role of a coach is to help change people's lives, thought patterns, ways to look at things. We're all in a time now where there's a lot of contention amongst families, amongst friend groups. It's very difficult to change someone's mind. But what is your advice for the productive ways to go about softening disagreements, opening up channels? Because just yelling your thing and putting your study out or just people yelling at each other, it's not working at all? So what is your strategy? What do you tell your coaches? What do you tell yourself for how to actually make meaningful change, meaningful impact in the collective or one-on-one conversations?

ROB: Well, this is good. Everyone's a coach in some sort of way, whether someone's getting paid for coaching or not. This goes to everybody who's in a relationship with somebody else in some sort of way. Essentially, even if you're not a mindset coach or life coach, fitness coach or nutrition coach, you still have other friends that come to you and talk to you when times are hard sometimes. Really, what people need right now, and it's hard for me to say as a guy, is not fixing it. You need to listen to other people first. I have someone who I'm really close with and their family is two sides, hardcore. You can show them all of the reasons why ivermectin has helped people, and they don't even see it because they are on the other side that sees something completely different. It's just a horse dewormer and all this stuff. I saw a tweet the other day that said calling ivermectin a horse dewormer is like calling water toilet-bowl liquid? Yeah, it could be used for that. Sure. The conversation that I had with them, because I think a lot of people are going to this, is really what it comes down to is I've made my decision. If it was my mom, which my mom is not, she highly respects my opinion, I love her for that but if it were my mom who was like, "Hey, I don't agree with you taking this and you acting this way and you doing this. You should wear a mask," if she took that side, if she said, "Hey, you have to wear a mask and you have to get a vaccine, all that stuff," I could just go, "Hey mom, listen, I love you. I appreciate you for giving me this. I know that really what you're coming from is you want me to be safe, what you want is you want for me to be safe..." So I'm really telling her what she wants and making sure I'm clarifying it first and then I'm just going to literally say, "What I really need from you though is I need for you to respect my decisions and not bring any judgment in." So I had a friend who was going through this really, really bad. It's actually the exact same situation. This friend was taking ivermectin and her entire family thought she was going to die from taking it. This is literally the exact situation that happened last week and I'm walking with you through this whole thing. Entire family thinks she's going to die from taking it because Rollingstone put out a fake article saying that all of these people are in the ER and stuff--

AUBREY: Yeah, it got completely debunked.

ROB: 100%. The hospital debunked it and then the doctor said that he hasn't worked there in two years, that they quoted on it. So they see this article and think that oh my god, she's going to die. And so they look at this like she's going to die if she takes this stuff. What's funny about it too, is it's not this is the first time this has happened. This is just something else that's happened. It's been something it's been happening for years and years and years with this family. So really what it comes down to... They kept going, "We don't want you to take this. We don't want you to take this. We don't want you to take this." She goes, "Listen, it has nothing to do with ivermectin or the vaccine. It has nothing to do with this. This conversation happened when I wanted to travel to Nicaragua, and you were afraid that Nicaragua was too dangerous of a place because the place that I was staying at didn't have an address, because Nicaragua does have a whole lot of addresses. Really, what it comes down to is I'm my own sovereign being. I love you. I appreciate you wanting safety for me but also, at the same time, I need to be able to make my own decisions and I don't want judgment. I know that if I bring judgment to you, you're not going to feel very good. If you bring judgment to me, it doesn't make me feel good. So I know you want safety for me and I love you for that but what I really need from you right now is just to respect my own opinions and my own decisions, because I am going to do what I want to do.

AUBREY: So that's a way to create a harmonious peace in a certain way, super good advice. I think, really, that thing you were saying about what is the motivation? They just want her to be safe. Just start with what you agree with and really anchor that in and really begin with an agreement. Okay, here's our agreement. And even in this debate, as it goes out at large, okay, what's the agreement? We want people to be happy, healthy, strong and thrive. We have two different strategies for that. One is going to trust the sovereignty of the individual, trust their nutrition, health practices, trust all of that. That's the way that we believe that people are going to be happy, strong and healthy. The other way is to get vaccinated and wear masks, stay at home, and isolate from other people. Well, we don't agree with that strategy. We think that strategy is putting Band-Aids on the real problems. But our motivation is the same. We want people to be happy, strong and healthy and thrive. So if you really like anchor back to that, that's a great starting point, great for interpersonal dynamics and actually your interaction with the collective, just to start with what you agree with. Doesn't matter, even the abortion debate. Well, we all agree that there's a time where it's wrong. There's a number of weeks where this is wrong. We love life, we both love life. These are all the factors. How many weeks? Texas came out and said six weeks. Well, that's not enough weeks for me. I'm more on the eight week side. That was an interesting thing that happened. This is a very complicated issue. I'm not trying to get into the actual meat of the issue. I'm just using it as an example. Texas came out and said six weeks is the cut off. There's a tonne of people who were really frustrated about it, a lot of women, a lot of other people. Okay, where would you put the weeks? Most of the women who were very angry about this, were like, "I'd put it at eight." Okay, so it's not that far off. Meanwhile, the internet is fucking going bonkers. What we're talking about is there's a couple week difference here of what we're figuring out. I'm sure some people are like "Zero weeks." Whatever. Everybody's beliefs are... But there's always a way you can get to what you both agree with and then realize that the differences are just usually differences in strategy or differences in details so many more times, but we can get all emotionally worked up and feel like we're completely on other sides of the universe, when really, maybe we're not. Maybe we're actually a lot closer than we think and I believe that we are because, again, back to point A, we're all the same person living a different life. So we're all in this together. All of this is just delusion thinking that we're so far apart, right and left and black and white and pro-life or pro-choice and pro-mask or anti-vax or whatever the fuck. We're really 99% on board with each other.

ROB: I think it comes a lot down to control which is like, the first time I did ayahuasca I realized my issue was control. I had a control problem. It beat me up so bad because I didn't realize I had such a bad control problem. If I'm looking at somebody else, who am I to tell somebody what they should and shouldn't do with their body either way? Whether that is a mask, or whether there's a vaccine, or whether that is an abortion. All I know is how I feel the correct way to take care of myself is and I'm going to go with what I feel is right. I'm not going to let any fear come in. I'm going to ask myself, I'm going to get myself present and be like, "Hey, what do I feel?" I have a friend who's literally like, "Should I get a vaccine or not?" I was like, "Well, it's completely up to you, man. It's you. What does your intuition tell you?" I've had people that have taken it that I wouldn't think would take it, where they said, "When I took it, I had a long meditation. I gave instruction to this thing of what I want it to do in my body." That's actually pretty beautiful. I've never heard somebody talk about it that way. I respect that. It's not about me telling somebody what they should and shouldn't do with their life. Because who the fuck am I to tell anybody? What if I was like, "Aubrey, hey, you have to eat a burger for lunch today"? You'd be like, "That's ridiculous." Why is it any different when I'm trying to tell somebody else what to do with their life in any other way? I don't feel--

AUBREY: It's so much different than saying, "There's burgers available if you want one." Actually, I do.

ROB: Yeah, I actually do want a burger. "No, you're going to eat a fucking burger today, Aubrey." You know what I mean? 

AUBREY: I love burgers but I don't even want one right now. Fuck you.

ROB: Exactly. You're going to resist it. For me, it's how I can look at somebody, I'm not a master of this in any sort of way. We are two imperfect individuals talking about a path that we're on to trying to get better. That's the beautiful thing about it. Yeah, I have love and compassion for everybody and I think everybody should do what they want. I find myself getting stuck all the time. That's the beautiful thing about life. Going back to you saying, you're not the same person at 30. So you've done ayahuasca a lot of times since. You still have things that you're working through, we all do. But what happens is we become aware of these things. Then a lot of things that I see when people start getting in the road of self-development is they become aware of stuff that they're not aware of and now they bring judgment on top of that awareness, because they're like, "I should be past this, I shouldn't be doing this, I shouldn't be acting this way." It's not like that. The simplest form of where I say self-development is and self-improvement, self-development, whatever people want to call it. When I was younger, something would happen to me, and I'd be triggered, and I'd be triggered for an entire week. I'd be pissed, "I can't believe she said that to me. What a bitch? I can't believe she did this. I can't believe that person acted this way." I'd carry it on for days and days and days. Then I started reading and hired coaches and went to conferences and started doing meditation, psychedelics, and working on myself. A few years later, it went from seven days to now I'm only triggered for four days. Then I worked on myself for a few more years, and now it's only one day, and it ruins an entire day. But it doesn't ruin an entire week anymore. Then I keep working on myself a little bit more, a few years and now it's an hour, I'm triggered. And then it's 15 minutes, I'm triggered. What we're all trying to get to, at least, me, personally is, the same thing happens, I'm not triggered. It means that there's nothing externally that can mess with this internally. That's really what it is. It's not about this thing that happens and then I become judgmental of myself like there it is again. I always say it's like when you go to a party, and there's that one person that's the friend of the friend, you're like, "Fuck, they're here again." You were hoping they weren't going to show up, that's what that trigger is for you. That fucking guy showed up again. I'm probably going to leave the party earlier this time. That's what a self-development site was like. I'm going to stop going down this route. We're all messed up, we're all trying to get better. Why would I judge somebody else's path and what they decide to do? I'm just going to try to see if I can give them some sort of compassion for what they're going through. I don't think that anybody needs another opinion of what they think that they should do.

AUBREY: The point about being triggered is I think a lot of times people think I don't get triggered because I'm just so not available, I have so much armor of the false self around me, that you can't even touch the real self. It's the real self that gets fucking really mad anyway. So fuck it. You become insulated and isolated. No matter what someone says, it's just maybe sticks in, the thick tree bark, protecting the heart of the tree, which is your true self. But that's not the way. The way is that you're on another vibrational level, where you're just at another octave. So anything that's coming at this lower octave, it just passes right through the tree. "Oh, you were shooting that dart at me? Sorry, I'm not here." It's like punching a ghost. Whoops, sorry, not here. Not here to be wounded. I know myself and I love myself and these reflections, because that's the hard part. What we really suffer from is we come to know ourselves partly through the reflections of other people. The more reflections of other people we have, the harder it is to transcend that because we're constantly getting reflections back from other people who are looking at us and don't see through the shiny exterior. We're looking at all of these mirrors, and then we get addicted to looking in these mirrors just like we get addicted to looking in the mirrors in our bathrooms or on our Instagram page, how many likes we get, we look at all of these other mirrors and then we start to lose the true gnosis of who we are. That's the place of real invincibility, where we can't be vanquished, is when we really know who we are and we just know that all of these reflections are all some form of illusion. It's very rare that anybody is going to see us completely. Hopefully, we have a couple people like that who really see us, real intimacy, real into me, see fucking wow, we see each other. That's why in "Avatar" I love that the highest thing that they could say to each other in the Na'vi people was I see you. Fuck yeah but very rare. We can hardly see yourself, first of all, so there's delusion number one. We can't even see ourselves straight because we have too much judgement of ourselves and we've taken on too much conditioning from the world. And then we expect some other person who can't even see themselves to see us perfectly when we don't even see ourselves. No fucking way. So ultimately, we're in this hall of mirrors. That's what makes it hard. So someone changes their opinion of us, oh god, I don't like what that mirror is showing me. But really, the path is if we really really know who we are, if we really know who we are, then all of the mirrors don't matter. It's just like literally walking through a funhouse mirror. "Wow, this one makes me look fat. This one makes me look skinny. This one makes me look really tall. Look at this. I look like a badass. Oh, this fucking Instagram filter makes me look like a gangster. This Instagram filter makes me look like I have perfect skin and big eyes and are all cute." We just know that we're applying a filter, but we're not lost in the filters. We know who we are. That's the place.

ROB: It's interesting, because if you would have talked to me 15 years ago, there was a point when I literally thought to myself, because you're talking about putting the armor up, I literally thought to myself am I completely unsympathetic to other people? There was a point where I was, "Maybe I'm psychotic or something like that. I don't feel anything from other people." What I realised is that the people who think that they literally don't feel anything, and they're not empathetic to other people around them, I think are actually usually feel the most. They're just trying to block it off.

AUBREY: Yeah, they're really sensitive people.

ROB: 100%. I've found, 12 years ago, 15 years, if you were to come up to me, I'd been like, I don't feel other people's energy. I don't really have a whole lot of empathy for other people," because I was so closed off. I've come to realise I'm about 12 seconds from crying at all points of time. I'm so close to crying. I tear up in movies more than my girlfriend does 100%. . And then there's a part of me that's like, "I got to stop." And then I'm like, "Why do I have to stop? Where did that come from where I have to stop." I realised I got it from my mom. My mom is very emotional too. She's about 12 seconds from crying at all points in time. A lot of the people, if this connects to anything, but it's out there where you feel oh yeah, but I'm just tough and I don't understand, I don't feel this with people. I've said this people that I've coached before in the past, one lady that's in my mastermind specifically, and we've been working on the phone for over a year, she's like, "I don't feel people, I don't understand it, I'm just so hardcore, I don't understand what people are going through. They bring in all this sappy shit." Now you talk to her and she's like, "I feel it. I get it." And I said to her at one point in time, "The reason why you don't think you feel anything is because you're actually trying not to feel the most." And she's like, "Oh, shit. I think you're right." There was something inside of her that made her go, "Yeah, you've got to protect this because whatever this feeling is, it's not safe." There was something that happened to her when she was younger that wasn't safe to show her emotion. So for me, like the longest time, and this is something that literally popped in my head three weeks ago. I was out on my back porch and I was like, "Why do I have to feel like I have to close off my emotions? Why do I feel like I can't cry? Why do I feel like I can't be this way?" I was thinking about it and I was like, "When was the first time that I had to disconnect from my emotions? I asked myself that question and I sat there for a while." I don't know if it was the first time but a memory popped up in my head. I was probably eight years old. And my mome and my sister were on the couch over to the left and I was in my dad's chair to the right. Something happened, I don't know what happened but I started to cry and they thought that it was a fake cry, I was putting it on so that they would feel bad for me.

AUBREY: They thought it was manipulative.

ROB: They thought I was manipulating. I wasn't. Then I remember running off to my sister's room because I didn't have room. I slept on the couch when I was a kid until about 10 years old. I ran to my sister's room and as I was running away, I could hear them being, "He's so dramatic." I remember crying on the bed and thinking to myself I'm not faking this. Why don't they understand me? I'm not trying to get any... Why is this wrong? What I'm doing is wrong. I remember being like that could have been the place where I shut off. I learned with two of the people who are supposed to be there to protect you if they can't even accept this emotional side of you, nobody in this fucking world is going to be able to accept that side of you. So I've got to build up a false identity and that's what I built. Now I'm trying to pick pieces of those bricks away so that I don't have this wall in front of me anymore. If I do cry, I cry. But there's nothing wrong with that. And that's what's crazy about it too. So many times, I'm sure you've seen it before in your mastermind man, somebody, they'll start crying and then they'll say, "I'm sorry." Why the fuck do you need to say you're sorry for crying? You don't say you're sorry when you laugh, do you? It's a natural human emotion, why is it wrong for you to sit there and cry? I'm going to hold space and let you process whatever you need to process.

AUBREY: It's a gift, it opens up a level of vulnerability. All of a sudden, the container gets really rich. In an Ayahuasca circle, there's all the shares, and then that first person who shares that hard shit, that deep shit and then every share after that goes into the real shit. It takes that first person to break into it. And if you're one of the people that actually came through before that, you're like, "Damn, my share was lame. I didn't get into the deep stuff."

ROB: I didn't say what I wanted to say.

AUBREY: I didn't get into the deep stuff. I just talked about the visions that I saw or whatever else. Now this whole container has said and I have shit that's on my heart, that's really there that I didn't bring up. It's a gift. One of the techniques that I use, actually, when I'm coaching other people in Fit For Service or wherever, is in that moment that you're talking about, which is really key. I love that question that you're asking, which is when was the first moment that you felt this and with people can bring up what age was it? Usually ask what age first, what age was the first age since you started feeling like your emotions weren't safe or people around you couldn't hold them? And they'll say, "Seven." Think of an event that happened when you were seven. Go through that. Then they'll get to that, and then I'll say, "Alright, so see your seven year old self." And then I'll go through a guided meditation. What does that seven year old need? What do they need? And for you, assuming it'd be well, that you'd be seen, saying, "I see you. I know it's hard."

ROB: The voice. That's what they need.

AUBREY: They needed that voice. I know. I know, sweetie. I know it's hard. That's what that person, that version of you needed. Sometimes, there'll be a gift exchange. I'll be, "Okay, so can you give that version of yourself, that seven-year-old something, at work?" Sometimes they give something to the older version of you, and then ultimately, you invite them back home. You invite that younger version back home to the self where you're at right now. Are they ready to come home? Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they need more coaxing and sometimes they want to stay, like that seven-year-old is just not ready to come home. But you'll just keep working with it. But there's something very powerful about, because as you said, there's fractures, little fractured elements where parts of ourself get stuck, just gently guiding them back to the tree, back to that true self tree on the straight line, the remo caspi, the golden tree that's going straight up in the air, and inviting that version back into the tree trunk, I found to be really powerful.

ROB: As you're speaking and you're talking about it, literally the voice that you heard when you were going through your Ayahuasca ceremony is, I think, the voice that everybody needs to hear right now. What are most people in, some forest? We can even talk about it. There's some people that are in complete fear of their life. There's other people that we're friends with that are complete fear that society is going to completely collapse and they're prepping, just in case the apocalypse comes. There's both sides of people being in complete fear of something. What it comes down to is that voice of it's going to be okay. What I've been trying to prepare myself with at least is, if society does change, how can I be unattached to it? Imagine, we've both done decently well in life. Imagine if shit does hit the fan, and all of this money, these things that we've accumulated, these dollars in our bank accounts switch, and we're not able to use American dollars anymore. It's going to change a lot of stuff, isn't it? My whole thing is if that did happen, I don't see it happening, but if it did, how can I be at peace with it right now even if it did happen? How can I just be unattached to it, going, "Okay." I trust the reason why I'm here is not to just accumulate these things into a digital bank account, which are just digits on a screen; it doesn't even really exist. But I think there's something there for me. If it does disappear, it's what was supposed to be given to me because there's something else I'm supposed to be guided to. For me, if everybody does die from COVID, it happens, how can I be unattached to it even though that's not what I want? If the apocalypse does come and we have to be fully prepped for six to 12 months or whatever it is, okay, it does happen, but how can I be fully unattached to it and just be like, "Okay." It really comes down to the trust of do we actually trust that God or the Universe or source has, what's happening is what's happening for me. If that thing does happen, sure, we can be prepared for it, whatever side that you're on. But can we just go, "You know what? It's going to be okay? It's going to be fine." If society shuts down, there's no more food or something like that, there's probably some intuitive thing inside of my brain that knows how to be able to create fire from sticks. There's probably something that knows how to hunt. I did get a bow and started practicing that. Alright, I don't have to worry about ammo, because I got a bunch of arrows. I'm going to be able to hunt for myself. There's deer that pop up in my backyard. I don't want to kill those deer, but I'll kill those motherfuckers if I need to eat. How can I be unattached to whatever comes, I can just roll with the punches, and it's going to happen?

AUBREY: Collapsing those fear states is really crucial. It's such hell to be living in this perpetual fear. I think that's why we draw our fears towards us, partly because fear is a belief in something negative that's happening, depending on how afraid we are is how much we actually believe it's going to happen. But being in this purgatory, this Bardo of fear is hell. So if you can actually get to the place where you collapse the fear by putting yourself in the state where it's already happened and being like, "I'm okay with it," you can dispel the fear, stop drawing it towards yourself, and be in equanimity. That's one of the great benefits of ayahuasca is we're all terrified of death at the start. That's the scariest thing of all. Well, they call ayahuasca the vine of death or the vine of the souls, largely because it's going to put you in confrontation with your greatest fear, which is death. You have to become at peace with that. I think that's something we see. People are afraid of a variety of different things. Fear of death, on one side, is certainly there. Other people, they're like, "I'd rather die than give up my liberties and my freedoms." So they're just terrified of their freedom being taken away. But then you can also point to the Viktor Frankl understanding, which is the last of the great human freedoms is the ability to choose our mindset for any given circumstance. That's not exactly the quote, but the same idea. There's a way to collapse all the fears of all of the things. No one can change the way my mind works. If I die, I'm not really dead anyways. I've been there and so then you can be at this peaceful place. For me, the fear... I can get to both of those places. Obviously, death is a dispreferential reality. Getting all my freedom and sovereignty taken away is a dispreferential reality and I don't want to be in an authoritarian police state. That doesn't sound good, either. But the fear that I still struggle with is really this self-generated fear of, "I'm not going to do enough. I'm not going to do enough. I'm here with all of these resources, all have this capability, and I'm not going to do enough, and I'm going to fail my purpose." That's the thing that's just the hardest to shake.

ROB: I have the same one. For me, are there other fears that are insulating and they're out there? For sure. My grandfather died at 95. I don't want to be 95 on my deathbed. It was beautiful. I was in the room when he died. I've never been in the room when someone died. That's a pretty incredible experience to go through. But the whole family came, there was nothing terrible about the death, he died in his sleep. I heard him take his last breath. I was like, "That's the way to go." Essentially, if you look at that, I don't want to get to the end of and be in his situation and go, "Man, there's more that I could have done." My biggest fear is the fear of regret as well. But then it goes back to, I think I might have said this on my podcast, I read an article or a quote that said, "What if the purpose..." What she said is, "Did I live out my purpose?" in some sort of way. What makes me feel good is what if the purpose of your life was just to simply smile at that person because that's what they needed or to open the door for them or to say, "Hey, I really like your shirt." And that, at least, clicked them out of this thought of having suicide and they go, "Oh, maybe life is a little bit better." What if we're trying to make our purpose to be this huge, massive thing and it was never supposed to be this huge, massive thing? And it's all just a game of play. Like you say, we're just pleasure monkeys. We're supposed to hear, just to experience and have this amazing thing. What if the purpose was to not go in... I deal with this as well. I make shitloads of podcast episodes and try to get views because I want to help people because I get the messages of helping them. There's always that thought in my mind of who hasn't seen it that would get me... I just got this amazing message from somebody this morning... This guy was talking about how he was thinking about committing suicide and all kinds of stuff. I sent him a voicemail back through Instagram. What if there's another person out there that needs to hear the same episode that he heard? What if I don't get to them in time? How can I get my message out there more? What if, instead of thinking that way, it's just you know what? I've already fulfilled my purpose of being here. All of this is just play anyways. The way that we decide to play is through speaking into microphones and cameras. That's our play. Other people's play might be a little bit different. I come back to you've already met your purpose, you've already done... Aubrey, you've already changed the world the way you're supposed to. Now, just have fun with it. For me, I can breathe again. When I work with my coach... I have a coach that I work with. One of the things that we talk about is how does that feel? What is the word for that? I was like there's no word. The thing I always come back to is... That is what I'm trying to feel more of. I will get myself stressed out of I need to go do more. I need to create more content. I need to change the world more. What purpose have I not fulfilled yet? He's like, "What do you want to feel?" I just want to feel. I felt, throughout a lot of my life, like I'm addicted to stress. There's a lot of things that happen in my life. I think I just became addicted to the feeling because that adrenaline, cortisol, was ramped up in my body with stuff that happened with my dad. I've come to realize I have searched for things unconsciously, in that deep unconscious, were talking about before, for me to become stressed. I find things for me to get stressed. I have created a conversation in my head to perpetually keep me stressed. It fucking sucks. And what's the opposite of stress? That feeling of surrender, let go. I consciously will notice myself get in that feeling of I'm supposed to be doing more, supposed to be creating more, our company should be making more money. It's doing great. But I see so much bigger of a thing that it could be. Alright, man, you've already done it. Just relax. Everything's amazing.

AUBREY: I come back to also, for one, breath is the antidote to all of this anxiousness and all of this stress? It truly is, and whether you're talking to Huberman, or you're just looking at the old pranayama wisdom that's been around for thousands of years, it really is. So getting back to my breathing, that's something that I remind myself, deep breaths through the nose. Just get back to that, and continuing to remind myself to breathe deep through my nose into my belly, throughout the day. That's one strategy. And then yesterday, especially now, it feels like the world needs more from me than ever before. Before it was, all right, spirituality, self- improvement, human-optimization, these are all valuable things. These are valuable things in times where everything's chill. But now things are fucking chaotic. People are at each other's throats, there's arguments on both sides. Separation is at an all time high, we're heading towards potentially dangerous social dynamics. So it's fuck, I got to do more! I had this deep meditation where I just realized, actually, all of this that I'm trying to worry about externally, just focus that back on me. Just start to really heal myself. Instead of worrying about healing the world as a slightly broken and stressed out person, just heal yourself, man. Heal yourself and watch your actions and watch everything you do be a natural emanation that emanates out. Of course, I'm still going to podcast, I'm still going to do everything but it only works from a healed place. Just fuck all this. I kept trying to think. I have a couple of different intentions for this meditation. One, I'm going to figure out what I can do for myself. And two, I'm going to figure out what I can do for the world. I just got stuck on one. And every time I'd go to the world, the guidance would come back and say, "No, no, no. Stay with intention one. Focus on yourself." And then the rest, the stuff you do for the world will all sort itself out but you have to heal yourself as the ocean in a drop rather than the drop in the ocean. Recognise that you hold the collective, really trust your state of inner being and if you heal yourself completely, you heal the world completely.

ROB: So funny because, literally, right before we started this podcast, we were talking about coaches, and I'm like, "Yeah, most people become coaches, because they're actually trying to heal themself by healing other people." We're fucking literally the exact same thing. Our issue is we want to do more when, in reality, we should... Do more for other people. In reality, we should just do more for ourselves and that will heal other people more. I'm curious, is there ever a time when you when you felt like you weren't doing enough? 

AUBREY: My whole life.

ROB: Is there a moment that you remember when you were younger of this visceral feeling of I'm not doing enough and that just clicked in and it's been perpetuating since?

AUBREY: There were a lot of moments, it was such a constant state, it's hard to figure out where it really happened. I think I can though actually, now that I think about it. So I went on a family trip to Italy with my parents in, I was a freshman, so ninth grade. We went to visit the dungeons of the Inquisition. It coincided with me moving to Texas from California. And Texas, back then, in '93 or whatever was far more. I guess it was more like '96, '95. Far more Christian than my California upbringing. So I was in a much more Christian reality and then I went to Italy and I went to the dungeons of the Inquisition. It was fucking horrifying, absolutely horrifying. 70% of all of the torture devices had to do with someone's genitals, and the other ones haunted, they still haunt me to this day. There was this one thing that you shackle people in this particular position that breaks your back and bursts your hamstrings. To leave someone in that for days until they die, what the fuck, man? Awful! And the Inquisition was, of course, out there and it was led by the church and they were finding, quote, heretics, people who didn't believe in the church or whoever they didn't fucking like and then torturing them in this way. So people who were into the plant medicines at the time, witches who were just out there healing people and fucking working with energy and whatever, anybody who had any different beliefs. Horrified by that, came to Texas and then I saw what capital R Religion. Of course, it's not to that level anymore, but so many people are just shackled, and riddled with so much guilt. We're coming into our own sexual spring in high school, and there were so many people who would have an experience or start to masturbate and be just crushed with shame, or be with their lover for the first time, just awful things. Like this girl was just sobbing to me because she'd had sex for the first time, lost her virginity and her religious boyfriend was like, "You whore! How did you tempt me to have sex," all of this shit. I was like, "This is fucked." I was always a really deep-thinker and philosopher from early, always exploring big issues and writing. At that point, it was like I had to attack and dismantle, capital R, Religion. I can do it. I can fucking do it.

ROB: Good luck with that one.

AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. But I think that was the moment where I felt this deep calling, deep calling like I have to fix these problems in the world. Now, of course, I'm actually much closer to being a Christian, I have a deep affinity with Christ, at least the mystic gnostic understanding of Christianity now. So my vehemence towards religion has really changed because I have deep admiration of the mystical truths of all of these religions, whether it's the Kabbalah or whether it's Gnosticism, or whether it's like the true Ted Dekker interpretation of the meanings of Christ, or whatever else it might be. That still isn't there with me but that was the first moment where I felt like there was a big problem in the world and there was an infinite amount of things that I could do that would still never be enough. I think that was that first feeling of fuck, there's a big problem and no matter how much I do, it'll never be enough. But I got to just keep doing the maximum.

ROB: It's hard because you're talking about trying to... Obviously, you have a much better relationship with it now but you're talking about trying to tackle the biggest thing that there is in this world. Christianity is bigger than bigger than the United States as far as how many people are into it and all that stuff. I'm the same way as you are. I tell people I am redeveloping my relationship with Jesus. There was a long time where I was like, "Fuck that guy." Just the word God or the word Jesus would internally make me agitated. I went through my own journey as well. My mom was raised Catholic. She went to Catholic school with one of six kids, when she was younger. So then I went to the Catholic Church which had some PTSD from the Catholic Church. I think most people do. My whole thing was, no matter what, I always felt like I was doing something wrong because I was always being watched. So I'm four, five, six years old, trying to think about everything that I'm doing. Is this what God wants me to do or is this wrong? It's this constant thought in the back of my head. I say a lot of people have this when they turn 18 years old and they leave the house, they don't realize that they're constantly being like, "Am I doing this right? Am I doing this right?" They think their parents are always looking over their shoulder, always trying to prove their parents right or wrong or whatever it is they want from them. I got out of being religious and then in about 2010, I was like, "Let me try to start going back to church." I play guitar so I started playing guitar at this church, which made me start going more. And then I got out of it. I was like, "When we die, we just become worm food." I became very close to atheist, I would say and then there was just a point where I was like, "I feel like there's something." And then the first time I did ayahuasca, I was like, "This is that something and I'm in that place where that something is, I'm here. I'm in the inner workings of God, whatever that is." I think there's a lot of people who have trauma around religion in general, just parents. There's a lot of people that religion's really good for and there's a lot of people that religion is really bad for. It just depends on who the person is and the way that it works. In my very first Ayahuasca ceremony, I remember going into it because I was like, "I need ayahuasca to show me..." My family is very Christian still, they're hardcore Christian. I'm very much on the other side of I'm open to everything. There's a lot of stuff that we can learn from all religions. I got that way because the very first Ayahuasca ceremony I did, after I went through all hell, and then it got beautiful, when I finally released and just let go, and it was giving me all the downloads to the universe, I said, "What religion is right?" Right away I came through all of them. They're all right. It's just like ice cream. It's just all different flavors. But you're still eating ice cream. The whole idea that I had was so what's the point of having all these different ones? Because different people need different things. Ram Dass about this guru where he would go up to one person and he would say something and he'd go up to some person and say the exact opposite of that one thing. Someone's like, "This guy, he's a charlatan, he's fake. He's saying all these different things," and someone goes up to him and goes, "Why did you say this thing to that person? You said something completely opposite to the person?" He goes, "Because when you're walking down a road, some people veer off to the right, and some people veer off to the left. To get them both back on the road, they both need different directions, because one of them has to turn left and one of them has to turn right." I was like, "Oh, all religions are right? Holy shit!" Then maybe me judging my mom for being so religious is ridiculous, because that's what she needs to get one step closer to enlightenment. And whatever my sister needs is something different, and whatever this person needs, Muslim, needs something different. So how could I possibly judge somebody else because what they've been given and what they're following, is what makes them feel like it's right for the next step in their soul. Same way that you and I might be meditation and psychedelics and connecting with other people and journaling and reading and that type of stuff. It's just the next level for all of us somewhere out there. And it might be religion, or it might be just your own path that you follow on your own. You might be connecting with other people in masterminds who have the same vision as you and you start to create almost, you're not creating your own church, but it's almost like another church where it's you get around people who believe the same as you and it makes you feel like I'm finally understood. And I think that's where my stress came from when I was younger, is that I always felt like I was being watched. I always felt like I was never right and I always felt like I was going to hell no matter what I did.

AUBREY: I think that all religions are right at their core essence but they've been manipulated, people fucked them up.

ROB: Yeah, people fuck up.

AUBREY: What was originally ice cream is now become some fucking sludge made by some factory designed to profiteer off other people and become the middleman and create these ways as mechanisms of control. That's, I think, where everything got twisted, and really, the God that I understand, says, "I love you no matter what and you can't do it wrong." Then the devil, "You're always fucking up and you're always doing it wrong." It's the opposite. I think there's been this huge conflation. Fear God. Fear God? Of all the things you're going to fear in the world, that's the last thing you should fear. It's flipped the world upside down. I think that's the nastiest trick of the devil or resistance. I try not to anthropomorphize and use these names, but that force has taken the seat of the divine and it just completely undermines. The fact that people were torturing people in the name of God, killing people in the name of God or punishing, judging when God's like, "I love you no matter what, and you can't..." That's the real God but everything got inverted. So it was in this dark upside down world prism that we've been in. But if you really look through and peer through, all the way through, you'll see that there's the kernel of the divine, there's the kernel of source in everything.

ROB: I think it's Alan Watts that says it, where it's what we do... We grow up and I see it, when I have friends that have kids, if you have a friend who's got a kid, their god is their parents. Just think about being one, two years old and there's this massive being, that literally provides you all of the safety, all of the food and the water and love that you need. Our gods of our universe, up until we realize what God is, are our parents. Then we grow up and realize that our parents are just people and they are flawed in many ways. So what we do is we take this flawed idea of our parents being god and place that on to the God and think, "Oh, yeah, well, he's going to send me to internal eternal damnation, and I'm going straight to hell." I got in trouble when I was in Catholic school, because I was like, "If God is love, why does He want to send me to this place that sounds like shit? I don't want to go. This sounds terrible."

AUBREY: Philosophy and religion and college, and one of the great things that I remember is if you're going to worship a God, it has to be, at least, as good as the best person you know. Otherwise don't fucking worship that thing. The best person I know would never, that's cruel and unusual punishment. You're talking about a lifetime getting licked by flames. 

ROB: Eternity! That's lifetimes, on lifetimes, on lifetimes.

AUBREY: Fucking eternity. That is evil. That's evil. So don't worship that one. That's a demon. That's a fucking demon. Hieronymus Bosch paintings, that's some demon demonic shit. There's nothing about God in that, because it has to be at least as good as the best of us.

ROB: For sure. At least.

AUBREY: At least. That's the fucking bar. That's the minimum.

ROB: Far beyond that you can comprehend that person even being right. So it's if you look at, if there's only two things in this world, there's love and there's fear and everything's comes from love and fear. God is synonymous with love and all religions that you look at. So if something is the epitome of love, it doesn't even know fear. It doesn't even know how to put fear into you. It is that voice of it's going to be okay, I'm here for you at all points of time. There is no way that God, I don't know how, at five years old, I was like, "This doesn't make any sense to me. This feels so wrong. This thing loves me so much, how could it possibly do that?" Nothing that you could do, could ever, and we spoke on this before. No matter what you could do, I'm still going... You're already forgiven before you even do the thing that's wrong. When have we ever felt in our lives, that there's one person that we're just fully forgiven with, no matter what happens? We might know one person, but very few people know anybody that you can come to, and there's no judgement and you don't feel any different no matter what, no matter what you say to them. And you know that they're your safe space, that they're not going to turn you into a bad person for what you did. When we go back to triggers or what we were talking about a few minutes ago. So my girlfriend and I, when we go to bed, we have a routine that we'll say one thing that we like about each other every night. It's just how we end it, even if we're in a fight. It's usually alright, well, let me tell you what I like about you. You know what I mean? We, at least, got to end it that way.

AUBREY: You had pretty hair today. 

ROB: You didn't piss me off as much as you could have. We'll still force ourselves to say it. Usually, it makes, at least, feel better where I could feel the tension and the tension subsides a little bit. Last night, I'll tell you what happened. On Saturday, she comes in and I'm watching football, she comes in and she's about to cry. I was like, "What?" Something with the dogs or something? You know something's not right. She was, "I don't even know how it happened." I was like, "Just tell me what it is. What is it?" And she goes, "I broke your watch." I'm like a real big watch guy and she broke my Rolex. She knocked it off of the counter--

AUBREY: She's just channeling her cat....

ROB: But it somehow fell perfectly so that it shattered the glass completely on my Rolex. If this was six years ago, it would have been, and this is what we said: we're going to bed, she's like, "I like that when I said it to you, you didn't freak out." Five years ago, Rob would have been like, "What the fuck are you doing?" Really, what it comes down to, we had this conversation in bed. I would have wanted to hurt you because I was hurt. But I could already see that you were hurt by the way that you came into it. So the worst thing for me to do is try to hurt you more when I can already tell there's hurt. I was like, "It's okay. It's no big deal." We took it into the shop yesterday, it's just getting sent off. I'll get it back in two months. That was me trying to, at least, be a little bit better of no matter what she did, sure, I love this watch but it's a fucking thing. But you're forgiven before it even happened in the first place. If somebody crashes my car, you're forgiven before it happens in the first place. How can we get to the point where what would have triggered us, we can forgive people, no matter what. I'm not trying to say I'm any sort of perfect being because still, inside of me, I was like, "There's no reason to bring that out." That's stepping more into the place that we should be, “Okay, you did this thing. It's not the outcome that I would have wanted. But it's not going to change the love that I feel for you.” How crazy is that, to be in a romantic relationship with somebody and they think that something happening to a thing can make me feel differently about them?

AUBREY: Also, what's even deeper and more fucked up is that people get angry at people not for their intentions, but for the consequences of some action. There's no way she was trying to break your watch. Not any stretch of the imagination. She was horrified that she broke and she feels terrible about herself. She's already self-punishing. She broke your fucking watch, if someone crashes your car, I guarantee they feel awful. If they don't, that's a fucking sociopath. You should probably not be friends with them anyways. Nonetheless, we'll get mad for an accident or for intentions that weren't there. This comes up in relationships too... Vylana and I have been moving through different traumas that she's had. She's always had her boyfriends who've been lying and cheating. She found out on two different birthdays of hers that her boyfriend had impregnated another woman, deep fucking gnarly shit. There'll be different situations that will come up where she'll plant that timeline on to me, and I'll be like, "Yo, this isn't this." Maybe I've said some comments or done something. I'm like, "You have to look at my intention. Do you think I would really try to hurt you? Look deeper." Even beyond just an accident, because we do that with accidents. That happened with our cats the other day and Vy caught that, because we were in this conversation about intention is the thing that fucking matters. Of course, if you're careless or whatever, you can be reminded to just be a little bit more mindful as you're moving through areas with fragile things. Be mindful of the fragile things. Things are valuable, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Our cats are irresistibly attracted to trash, including tin foil. I made hot chocolate for our friends staying at the house, and I put tin foil on the top. So the cat was like, "Oh, great. Trash." Pulls on the tinfoil, pulls the hot chocolate off the counter right in front of us. It splashes on Vy's pants and shoes as it happens. Our cat's name is Cyrano. "Cyrano!" Gets mad like Cyrano, intentionally, maliciously fucking sabotaged.

ROB: This will look good on you, Vylana.

AUBREY: Exactly and then she caught herself. She's like, "Oh, man, that's that shadow thing that we learned. We'd knock over a dish and our dad yells at us like we intended to do that." Of course, Cyrano didn't do that. I never intended to do that. But it's these patterns. We're really grateful that we're starting to unpack all of these things, but if you really look at the intention, there's nothing. No blame to be had. But even still, then there's the other level of that Christ consciousness. So one is very practical. Just look at the intentions first, before you even allow yourself to get worked up and angry. Did someone really mean to hurt you? It's very rare that someone means to hurt you, but sometimes, someone will mean to hurt you. And then can you forgive them then too? We've all been in that place where we've been fucking pissed off. And we've shot a dart, we've thrown a little dart, a little blow dart of venom and we've tried to hurt somebody with a word, with some action. We've all been times and that's forgivable too. That's the lesson of true forgiveness but there's a lot of ground that we can make up by just actually understanding culpability. If someone's not trying to do something, it's not their fault. But even if they did, we've all been there too. You're also forgiven.

ROB: If I go back to it, I probably should have put my watch away. 

AUBREY: Totally. Totally.

ROB: Did I take a shower and leave it out? Yeah. Have I left it out there many times? Yeah. But could I put it on my bedside? At the same time, I've heard Tom Bilyeu talk about this, taking responsibility for everything in your life. The example that he gives, I haven't heard in years, but he says, "If my wife was driving, and she's at a stoplight and she's just sitting there and it's a beautiful day, and she gets hit by an asteroid and killed, is it my fault?" People are like, "No, it's not your fault." No, it is my fault. It's an asteroid, what are you going to do about an asteroid? He's like, "Well, I know that there is a foundation called the Near Earth Asteroid," whatever it is, where they actually research, all of these near earth asteroids are going to be coming by, and these comets and all that stuff. He goes, "I've known they exist for years. I've never donated $1 to them. What if I could have donated some money to them, and it would have helped save my wife's life?" So really start to think deeply, is it possible that I can take responsibility for everything in my life? That's what it comes down to realize that people won't take responsibility and they're so quick to blame everybody else for everything versus going, "Hey, how could this have been my fault?" How could it have been my fault? Yeah, I probably could have put my watch away. That probably would have been a good idea. I don't ever put my watch away, because I wear it every day. So it's always out. I have to watch winder for it. I could put it away. I haven't put it away in like three months and look at what happened. Is there a lesson that's in everything? The lesson could be hey, man. You need to pick your shit up more?

AUBREY: I think one of the reasons why we are afraid to take responsibility is because we're so afraid of our judge. If we take responsibility, then we're subject to the punishment of the judge. We're always trying to be exculpable, always trying to be, "No, no, no, no. It wasn't my fault. I was in a hurry. I was fucking busy. I've done this many times," whatever. Because what are we doing now? We're pleading our case to this tyrant that lives in our own home of our mind, this tyrant of the judge. You should have blah, blah, blah. Now you're not worthy of love because of this. But if we can soften the edges of that judge, change the judge to the loving coach, "Okay, I know you did this," that loving parent rather than this tyrannical judge that we have in our own mind, then we can start to take responsibility for stuff because then we're not trying to come up with excuses and come up with reasons why we were justified in doing what we did. I'm justified in saying what I did because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, when really, it's all pleading our case to this figurehead of the judge--

ROB: That doesn't even exist in the first place.

AUBREY: It's just fiction. It's been reflected to us by the world because the world has judged us in that way. What I've realized, we create a judge in our own mind harsher than the harshest judge we've ever experienced to prevent us from being subject to that Judge. I understand why we have it. It just doesn't serve us. Again, Vylana, had a really, really intense authoritarian parent, step parent, fucking ruthless. Listen to this music, you're grounded for a year.

ROB: A year?

AUBREY: A year. So she developed a judge that was harsher than that, and also the mechanisms of how to get out of it, because it was insane. You have that kind of insane. But she developed a judge that was harsher than the harshest judge she had. My dad had a really strong judge, the punishments weren't that harsh, but he would remove love, which felt like death for me anyways. So we developed this judge that's harsher than the harshest judge we've experienced in life. Then that becomes our thing, which is always a tyrant, we're always going to experience some kind of tyrant. I say that in a loving way. It's not their fault. I'm not like judging them for being that. They've had their own tyrants. In my dad's case, he certainly did a hell of a lot of work. His father was fucking Franz-Kafka-novel-level awful. He did his best, and everybody's doing their best. But nonetheless, we create that, and then we have to live with that in our home until we confront that thing, and really start to unravel it, and then we can actually then start to take responsibility and be like, "Oh, yeah, I should have put that watch away. I could have been nicer. I could have said this in a different way. I could open my heart a little bit more to you, I could have been more compassionate," then we're really able to make progress because we're not trying to defend our position. We're just, "Oh, yeah, I could do more, and I can do more, and I will and we'll make this even fucking better."

ROB: There's a video Will Smith had one time and he said, "What happened to you is not your fault but whatever you get from it is your responsibility." What's interesting is you look at your grandfather, to your father, to you, none of those things that happened to you are your fault in any sort of way but what you do with it is your responsibility. I'm assuming you guys will probably have kids one day, and you don't want to pass that. So it's cool about the work that we put into ourselves is... My goal is not to pass any of my past traumas from my parents on to them. If you look at your grandfather, to your father, to you, you're working through to make sure that this doesn't go again. For me, I was very aware of what happened with my dad. My dad was an alcoholic, because my grandfather, my dad walked into the room after he heard a gunshot and saw his dad had just shot himself in the mouth with a shotgun at 12 years old. Of course, you're going to have trauma from that. I didn't have anything that bad. So none of those things is my fault. My grandfather did that, it's not my fault. My father becoming an alcoholic, cannot overcome his demons is not my fault. But it is my responsibility to make sure that I don't become an alcoholic, and this doesn't get passed on to my children. Really, what it comes down to is us just taking our own responsibility for ourselves and going, "You had this, I had this, Vylana had this, there's all these things that happen but we're putting in this work, because we care enough for the next generations coming up that we don't want to pass it on to them. And we also just care enough for ourselves," I guess you could say, to make sure that we get past this so we feel better of our normal operating. If I had been trying to do what I do now, at the scale that I do now, and not done all of the work I'd done myself, it would have been a complete explosion, implosion, whatever it might be, with myself. Really, what it comes down to is how can we take responsibility for everything? You can call it blame if you want to. I can blame myself for the watch. I can take full responsibility for it. Probably made my girlfriend more excited to hear me say, "Hey, that was all my fault," because it made her feel better as well. At the same time, I don't want to pass it on, not just pass it on to my kids, I don't want to pass it on to anybody that I come in contact with. That energy that still exists from it, if I hold on to it, is going to be passed on to other people in some sort of way, which goes back to your ayahuasca ceremony of who you could be if you release that thing and got back to the true self is too much for you to even handle seeing it because the way that would impact every person that you come in contact with could completely change everybody else around you.

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So two things that I want to go back to that you said, one is that little ritual that you have with your girlfriend, interestingly, it's something I started doing with my wife as well, where we try to pick something that either we really appreciated that they did throughout the day or something that made us feel really loved, like this thing made me feel really loved or this thing, I really appreciated this thing. Sometimes it's two things, sometimes it's just one thing, and then we set an intention for the day. We haven't made it a pattern that we do every night but we started it in ayahuasca because, of course, going to do ayahuasca as a couple, lots of shit comes out. I have so much admiration for what she was able to move through. A lifetime of challenge, she was able to confront head on and overcome it. It was incredibly beautiful to see. But, of course, we had to hold that together so we started this practice to just anchor to the positive. That's, I think one really important thing that we can do is pick these little anchor points because we're anchoring back to love and appreciation before bed every night. That sets us up for a positive day and then we also tried to set an intention for the next day of how we're going to show up for each other and how we're going to... It's a beautiful practice. So finding little anchor points and intentions, and then making those habits, I think is great. The other thing is I've been feeling like I could really use a coach myself and you mentioning as well, you're a coach and a great coach, and you're like "My coach." I was like, "Fuck, well, if Rob's doing it, I for sure should do it as well." So that's something that I'm going to do. And I think that's something that even for those people listening who are really conscious, reading the books, doing the work, there's something about having, even if it's a voice, it's reiterating stuff that you already know but they're going to say it in a different way, they're going to reflect it in a different way. It's almost like we get coach-deaf to our own internal coaching mechanisms, but having somebody else say it and having a little bit of that accountability, knowing you're going to talk to them next time, and they're going to ask you about it, it just seems really helpful. Hearing you talk today has reinforced those two different things. Keep up this practice with Vy of doing this every night and then I'm going to come out of this meeting, and I'm going to call up and I'm going to set up a coach.

ROB: We both love words of affirmation, but we could both be better at it. Nothing makes me feel better than being appreciated by somebody else. Gifts are cool. If you look at the five love languages, they're all cool but for me, I do love when someone just says something nice about me. It's nice to end... I sleep really well. Maybe it's because of the fact that I go into it with this feeling of appreciation right before I go to bed. She slept really well too. That's part of it where we all could be better at finding the good in people and saying that out loud to them. I can look at someone and think something, I can look at her and think, oh my god, I really like the way she looks right now, like what she's wearing. For a long time, I would just think about it and never say it. Fuck, I got to say it. People need to hear these things from me. So it helps in that way. The second thing with a coach is, first off, I always tell people who are coaches, "How can a coach coach people and not have a coach?" For me to preach that you should have a coach and not have a coach doesn't make any sense. The second thing is it took me a while to find somebody because I couldn't find somebody that I felt was on my level, not saying that in a narcissistic way but I needed somebody to challenge me. And I needed somebody who... What I really want to work on is the way that we've been talking about showing up with more compassion, more love and loving people. So someone that was like that, that had the full integration of feminine and masculine. I'm really good with the masculine. The feminine is what I'm trying to work on, a little bit softer side of myself. This person ended up being a great bridge between the two of them. So there was that. And then also, I fully tell everybody, my coach is $10,000 a month. We only get two calls, one of them's an hour and a half. We get two calls every other week that are an hour and a half, and then 20-minute check-in sessions.

AUBREY: How often are the 20-minute check-in sessions? 

ROB: I talk to him every week. Every other week, it switches. So an hour and a half then 20 minutes, then an hour and a half, and then 20 minutes. There happens to be some, we'll call expanded things that we do with substances.

AUBREY: Oh, snap!

ROB: Everyone can think whatever they want to with that. But it doesn't matter because I'm not dropping his name. There is that as well, that helps because you get to a certain point where you feel like you just need help. People who are alcoholics get to a point where they just... Hopefully, they get to a point where they're like, "I need help." I feel like I've gotten to a point that's really good. I love everything around me but like I said to you, I said to him, I was like, I feel this chronic underlying stress. I feel it and I don't know where it's coming from. I've done so much work on myself. I'm trying to get better at this, I'm trying to get better at this, I'm trying to get better at this. The amount of blind spots that I have for someone who literally journals every fucking day is wild. To realise that there's still so many blind spots... For me, the reason why you go into a psychedelic journey is to work on yourself. Why would I not be working myself every week and have this practice with somebody who also holds me accountable? If you look at my schedule, I'm a busy dude. I've got a whole lot of things happening. I'm super busy. So I will put certain tasks that will be an improvement on me and work on me. He sent me a guided meditation that he made after doing a 12-hour session with him of things that came up and things I needed to work on. That's what I listened to every single morning of having that space where I can wake up, and I can give myself a morning routine, I'll go through the morning routine. Then there's also what is the next thing that I'm working for and who's the person who is going to be holding me accountable to make sure that it happens? I talked to him right before I came here. He was like, "How did your meeting with Lauren go?" We did weekly meetings for a while and then were like, "We don't know what the fuck we're doing." We met, we talked about things. So he gave us his whole questions, answers, journaling ways to talk through things. He's like, "How did it go?" The fact that I know; it's on my schedule, it's on her schedule and it's also on his schedule; that I need to fucking do and it can't be pushed off anymore, is now holding both of us accountable to actually making sure that it gets done. And that's the work that we need to... It's like someone who's, "Hey, send me your meals that you ate today. I'm going to check your macros," and all that stuff. You need someone sometimes, not always but, for me, at this point in my life, I need somebody who can hold me to a high level of accountability because I know the next level I want to get to, I just can't see some of the blind spots and he's been incredible for that.

AUBREY: I know who I'm going to reach out to as well.

ROB: You're at a level that you need someone.

AUBREY: I mean, we mentioned him, it's Peter Crone. I've gotten my three free sessions on my three podcasts that I've done with him and they've been great.

ROB: You cried every time.

AUBREY: For sure. He's a fucking master. So I'm going to finish this podcast and I'm going to reach out to him and it's going to be fucking expensive. He's not cheap.

ROB: I know. I looked it up. I was going to hire him before I hired this other guy. The other guy just happens to be a real good friend of mine that's local. All right, I'll work with this guy and then I can switch over to Peter as well. It was expensive, I saw it. But how serious are you about the growth that you want to have in yourself? When you listen to him speak, I've heard many different podcast episodes he's on. I kid you not. There's an interview that he has with another guy, an Australian guy, and I watched it and he starts talking about the redness under his eyes and where it came from and starts working through how his heart has been closed up and stuff. I literally brought my girlfriend and I brought Lauren in, and I was watching it on my TV on YouTube. I scrolled back and I was like, "You have to watch the last 20 minutes of this." I sent it to him and I was like, "I've watched a lot of coaches. I've watched Tony Robbins a lot. I've watched every coach you could possibly think of that's a big name. I go, "I think this guy's the best." The fact that this guy can pull up an unawareness that somebody has like a blind spot and work through it so quickly, I was like, "This guy's fucking incredible. So I do agree that he's... I'll hold you accountable to that.

AUBREY: All right! Let's go! Let's go!

ROB: I'm going to text you next week and make sure. 

AUBREY: He blows my mind. So for people listening who want to be a coach, I think we've established one of the things that's really important. Get a coach. First, get a coach. I think that's a step that a lot of people are missing. Really get in there and really see what it's like to be coached. For me, I've had the blessing of many shamans, many mentors, many things that I've created this amalgamation of capital C, Coach for many forms, but never had a coach. That's not my primary role either. I coach people in Fit For Service, but I'm also the leader of the organization. We have a bunch of other people that come in. But I think it'll be really valuable for me to have, especially, someone like Peter at that level, because I've learned something from him every time he fucking. But then there's other things too. So if you're going to talk through people, and I know you have programmes as well that help people with a lot of that, and please touch that as well. But if someone really feels called to become a coach, which many people do, what do you think are the steps beyond them also getting a coach?

ROB: I'll tell you first off, before even that, I'll tell you why I'm so passionate about coaching. So I hired my first coach when I was 19 oddly enough. It was 500 bucks a month, and I got two people with it. The funny thing was, I got lucky, it was actually Hal Elrod and his best friend. I was their very first coaching client back in 2006, old Cutco guys, I'm an old Cutco guy, hired them. I paid 350 bucks a month for rent, I paid 500 bucks a month to talk to them, and to have access to them for two years. It was great. I don't remember anything we talked about for two years. I just remember it was really great. But there's one thing that I remember being on a phone call with his best friend, his name John Berghoff. The guy's a genius, super smart. He was only 24 at the time, I was 19. I was making excuses as to why I wasn't getting the results that I wanted. I was in Cutco, the sales company. I wasn't making the money that I wanted, I wasn't making the calls. I wasn't showing up to our calls on time. I'd be three minutes late. The only thing I remember him saying to me that literally has changed the course of my life, is he goes, "Hey, Rob. If a business fails, whose fault is it?" I was, "It's the CEO's fault." He was okay, "If a business succeeds, whose fault is it?" And I said, "It's the CEO's fault." He said, "So if you get to the end of your life, and it wasn't what you wanted it to be, whose fault would that be?" I was like, "It'd be my own." He goes, "If you get to the end of your life, and it is what you wanted it to be, and you created everything that you wanted to, whose fault would that have been?" And I go, "It would be mine." He goes, "The problem with you is you're making too many excuses and you're not acting like the CEO of your life. You're making excuses. You're externalizing all of the blame and putting it on other people, or the circumstances, when in reality, you have to take the blame for everything in your life the same way that if the business succeeds, it's the CEO's fault. It fails, it's the CEO's fault. If your life is shit and you regret everything, it's your fault. There's no one else that you can blame. But if you get to the end of your life, and you're like, 'I did it.' It's your fault." Literally, that moment changed my life. I don't remember what we talked about for two years, but it was all good stuff. But that one moment changed of course my life. Where I grew up, really nice area, but also because of the fact that there was a lot of money that was there. There were a lot of poor people, there was also a lot of money though so we'd just go party at all the rich kids' houses. At that point in time, it was the most drug overdoses anywhere in the state of Florida. So I know a lot of people have overdosed from a lot of things and I could have gone that route absolutely but it was this fork in the road of I could have gone one one way and that moment made me go a different direction. So that's why I'm so passionate about it because literally everybody has an opportunity, and even if they're not a coach, people who are out there listening, a conversation with somebody can change your life. Don't underestimate that. So that's the first thing why I think coaching is so important is because a conversation can literally change somebody's life. That's fucking wild, if you think about it. I'm super passionate about it just because of that. The second thing that people need to do is, immediately go to, "I need to get certified," and I don't know how many listeners you have and I know it's a pretty decent amount, I'm going to just say it to everybody. Most certifications are fucking scams. Do you want to know why? Because they teach a little bit of how to be a coach but they don't teach you how to make money. If I'm starting a business, I don't want it to be paid like a hobby, I want it to be paid like an actual business. I think what it comes down to more than anything else, is if somebody wants to be a coach, they need to have a coach, they need to have somebody or they need to at least have a friend. The thing about it that I've come to realize is that the better that I become as a person, the better I become as a coach. A lot of people have this feeling, almost everybody that starts off as a coach has imposter syndrome. Like who am I?

AUBREY: Which is, I think, why they reach for certifications, because it gives them something they can hold on to when they feel like, "Wow, I shouldn't be doing this." Almost all certifications, people will be like, "I'm going to go get my nutrition certification." The fuck are you doing? That's 15-years-old content that you're trying to study? Asparagus and egg whites? We're past that now. We fucking moved past that.

ROB: 100% and I agree with you. We all know people who have degrees and certifications flying off the wall but they still can't figure it out in life. It comes back to what we were talking about earlier which is the lack of self worth, bring in Joe Rogan now because a lack of self worth is also the lack of self worth of who am I to go and coach somebody this. So what I always tell people is to have a particular thing that you become obsessed with. For me, the way it happened for me, I'm just really fucking intrigued by humans. I just love watching people and watching their body and listening to what they're saying and going in my head, "Where did this come from? I wonder what their relationship with their mom and dad is like?" Usually, that's going on in my head and then I'm really intrigued by neurobiology, and figuring out the chemicals inside somebody's brain to make them do something or not do something. It's like becoming a specialist in something. There's a lot of people that listen to you that are incredible. They go to the gym, and they're in incredible shape but they literally don't need to go and get a certification to go tell everybody how to do exactly what they just did. They've gotten knowledge. It's just sometimes the people that are the best could be possibly the best coaches, it's so easy for them because, of course, I do this at the gym. Of course, I eat this. Of course, I drink this much water. Of course, I have this morning routine. It's so natural to them to do what they do that it's almost autopilot, that they didn't even think that they could teach other people. What I always say is if you're going to try to figure out what it is that you want to do, because people are like, "Well, I want to become a..." I had a lady one time that was like, "I want to become a..." I don't want to tell you exactly the words because I don't want her to hear it and be like, "Oh my god, he's making fun of me." But it was very, like, if you've been cheated on and you're Christian, and you live in this section of the country. I was like, "That's a little bit too specialized. Could you also help other people, other women?" Then someone will say, "I want to be a women's empowerment coach." I'm like, "Well, if a man came in and said, 'Hey, I have this issue. Can you help me?' Could you help them?" They're like, "Yeah." Would that make you feel good to also help a man? It would? So then maybe you just go a little bit wider and go, "I'm actually an empowerment coach, I help these types of people." For me, number one, realize that you probably need a coach, because there's blind spots that you have. And number two, figure out what it is that you're just either obsessed with or that you have this really... I could probably say this is how Onnit got built to what it is. You probably became really intrigued as to the chemicals and the way it works in someone's body and getting into that. You became a specialist in this with no degree but it was able to help you build this amazing company. It's the same thing where I'm really interested in how nutrition works in someone's body and how it makes them feel. I have a lady who lives in the UK that's been with us for about a year and she crushes it. She's cured cancer in people based off of a change in their nutrition. She's a fucking wizard with it. When you think about those types of things, she doesn't have degrees around that stuff. She's been in this game for a while, she figured it out on her own and now she's teaching it to other people. What are you just so obsessed with that you're going to learn about and want to read anyways? If I didn't do what I do now, and I wasn't making any money doing it, I would still be geeking out on all of this stuff that Andrew Huberman says. I just love those things. Figure out what you're interested in and you just want to learn more about and, usually, that becomes a path. Then when people say that they're not good enough, and they have the imposter syndrome, what they're usually doing and who they're trying to fix is them five years ago. So just ask yourself what you needed five years ago. If you could, right now, in 2021 coach yourself in 2016, what would you need in 2016? Almost always, people are like, "I got it. I figured it out." We're never coaching people that are like us. We're coaching us a few years behind. A coach is not a guru. It's not somebody who's got it all figured out. I tell everybody on my podcast, "I'm fucked up, I mess things up all of the time. I'm not this perfect human. I've just been working on myself for 16 years, I'm a little bit further along the path." If people were just to open up and go, "Okay..." And this is a great way to make money, which is a good thing about it, if people really want to. But if they just go, "I want to be fulfilled," even if somebody were to just help people for free with nutrition or with fitness or whatever it is, it just makes you feel good to make somebody else feel good.

AUBREY: Some of the programmes that you offer really help coaches turn their coaching practice into a profitable business. But if you were to distill a couple things, and of course, for anybody interested, who wants to escalate that, what's your principal course called?

ROB: It's called Business Breakthrough but they can just message me on Instagram, and we can talk about stuff. They got to get on a call with one of my team and make sure that they're the right person. We have a little bit of a filter on it.

AUBREY: A whole process. So they feel called for the escalation, but if you were going to just drill down, just a couple points, people who are listening, who are interested in this and interested in either becoming more profitable in their coaching business, or entering in with this, "Yes, I want to help people. Yes, I want this to be my profession as well," what are a few things on the business side that you could tell people about how to get clients and how to retain clients? Just a couple simple things?

ROB: It's super simple. There's a lot of people that work out here, that literally, they could, no joke, probably make $500,000 to a million dollars next year as a coach, not even kidding, in a sort of way. It's just they don't have the system to do it. In the coaching business, it's a coaching business. There's the coaching side, and there's the business side. If you don't know the business side, you could be the best fucking coach in the world, but you're going to be the best broke coach in the world. It's that simple. I know somebody who has 10,000 followers on Instagram, makes $2 million a year off of that. People think I need to have like 400,000 to 500,000 followers like Aubrey, or a few hundred thousand like me. You don't need that. What you need is a system. The system is super simple. There's only really a few parts to it. If somebody has an Instagram, usually Instagram's easiest way to grow it, because you can slide in people's DMs, you can talk to them and stuff. There's a whole lot of tactics of how to actually have somebody reach out to you and not have to reach out to them. But it's ridiculously simple. With me, I have a few places around my house I go to. I go to the same coffee shop every single day. They know me by name. "Oh, it's Rob. Where's bear?" They know my dog. "Oh, where's Toby? Where's Lauren?" They know that we're always there. I frequented 10 places within five miles of my house. I sometimes go to other places. There's no difference on social media. This will change a lot of people in the way that they see it. A lot of people think that real life is different than social media. Social media is the exact same thing. It's just people who bring their real life into social media. So the same way that I go to the same coffee shop, I go to five different places, the restaurants, they're communicating, and liking and following the same 10 people. And with the algorithms, they're going to keep getting hit by those things. So then you ask yourself the question, okay, me five years ago and what I needed, what social media accounts would I follow in order to be able to connect to those people? What did I need? Someone might say Tony Robbins. So then you go out there and you go, "Okay, well, how can I start?" There's definitely strategies around how to do this much better but how can I find these people that are following Tony Robbins that look like my perfect client when I hit their social media page? I know that oh yeah, this person seems to check the boxes after I've gotten very clear on what it is. Now I've got to make a connection with them. And there's ways to do it without just cold DMing them and just saying, "Hey, you want my services or any of that shit?" Nobody wants that. But ways to connect with those people to then get them to follow. You say, "Okay, who would they follow? If my perfect clients are out there, who are they? Who would they follow and then how can I connect with them to get them to start following me? My idea is to make somebody go, "Who the fuck is Rob Dial?" He comments under one of my posts? I don't like the whole follow-unfollow thing. I'm not a fan of that. People do it. I'm going to follow these people and then two weeks later, I'm going to unfollow all of them and I'm going to have four followers because they found me. You have to realize that your Instagram is your business card. So if you were yourself five years ago, and you go and look at your Instagram, would you want to follow yourself? Some people look at it, they're like, "No, I wouldn't." If that's your business card to show people that you're the best at what you do, how can you make your business card look the best that you possibly can? So it's very simple. You need to have a strategy to grow on social media and there's many different ways that. People can YouTube. There's tons of different ways of how to grow on social media. And then what you need to do is you need to have a strategy to get that person who now follows you onto a phone call. Then you need to have a strategy once they're on to a phone call, that you get them to buy your services. So it's not hard. Onnit's crazy, dude! I sit in my house, and I've been a coach, and I teach people who sit in their houses and they make $40,000, $50,000, $100,000, $200,000 $300,000 $500,000 as coaches. You have products and people and lights that are on. I just walked by on the way to the bathroom. I don't even know how many things you guys make but you have to go through research to find those things. There's a lot that has to go into putting Onnit together. Literally, if I decide today, I want to be a coach, I can make money today. The profit's 100%, which is amazing about it, which is why a lot of people want to become coaches. You need to develop your social media. That's the first thing. You need to develop your social media, realize that's your business card. You need to get people who now follow you on social media, have a strategy to talk with them. You could do it in stories. If I'm sitting there, I'm like "Hey, I'm talking about Omar, who just made a quarter of a million dollars in his first five months and I'm like, 'Hey, if you're interested in it, just send me a DM below.'" I've now opened it for someone to raise their hand and say, "Hey, I want some help." So if you're a nutrition coach, and you're like, "Hey, I have this one client..." And there's a lot of people who are physical therapists, not physical therapists, personal trainers, they could be a personal trainer here at a normal gym, and they might make 30-40 grand a year, 50 grand a year. But you've got specialized knowledge, you literally hit it and you're like, "Hey, one of my clients has been working here for three months, and she's lost 15 pounds. If you're out there, and you're trying to make your summer body and you're curious about it, send me a message, we could talk about it." Then you got to get them onto a phone call and you've got to close them. Here's the thing about the phone call though, everybody listening, if you are a coach, you want to be coach, just fucking charge more. You have to charge more. Here's the reason why. My coach, I told you, is $10,000 a month, I take that shit very seriously. When you work with Peter Crone, I've looked at his website. It's $25,000 a month for a minimum of three months, you're going to take that shit seriously, because that's your car. It's not cheap to do that. So people are always like, "I want to do my coaching for a low ticket and charge $47 a month or something like that, for people to work with me." The less you charge somebody, the less serious they take it. The best thing that you can do for somebody is charge them more. And the reason why is because when you charge more, they take it more seriously. And when they take it more seriously, guess what happens? They actually get some fucking results in their life. And when they get results in their life, guess what they do? They keep you as a coach. And that's how you develop long-term clients by working with people, and at the same time, you make more money. Sometimes you charge more than you think you're worth and somebody says yes, now you're like, "Oh shit, I better show up for them at the highest level that I possibly can." 

AUBREY: It holds you accountable.

ROB: Makes you better. By charging more, everybody wins. You have a Gucci bag that's on right now, you paid more than it would have been if it was just a bag that you would have gotten out at Walmart. We hold value and things that are more expensive. There's a whole lot of science that goes into it. When we spend more on something, we care about it more. If it would have been a $10 watch that broke, I would have been like, "Alright, throw it away." But it was a $10,000 watch that broke and I was like, "Oh, okay, that hurts a little bit." So when you charge more, your clients take it more seriously, you make more money, but then you also show up at a higher level and they show up at a higher level. So the system is super simple. Grow on social media. How do you get those people from social media onto a phone call? Usually, you gotta chat with them in DMs a little bit, and see what's going on with them. You get them onto a phone call and you close them on your services. It's literally that simple. There's nothing else to it. You can literally pick up new clients today from the exact system, social media, getting them into a DM conversation, getting them onto a phone call, then you become a coach.

AUBREY: Boom. Spoken like the master you are.

ROB: It's not the hardest thing in the world. But people have to realize you are good enough to charge for your coaching. That's usually the biggest barrier. I almost didn't start my podcast, I swear to God because Tony Robbins has a podcast. He didn't even have a podcast. I almost didn't start because Tony Robbins exists. And I was like, "Who will listen, at that point in time, to 29-year-old Rob talk about things and they could go listen to Tony Robbins? Why the fuck would they listen to me?" Fast forward six years, it's almost at 100 million downloads. I almost didn't do it because of that. I wouldn't have this life that I have now and feel fulfilled if I hadn't gotten past that imposter syndrome. Whatever people are feeling, the imposter syndrome will crush your dreams. It's that ego telling you're not good enough.

AUBREY: And everybody feels it. That's the thing I tell people who struggle with that. That comes up a lot like. Anytime you're stretching yourself, you're going to feel the impostor syndrome because you've never done it.

ROB: 100%.

AUBREY: If you don't want to have impostor syndrome, just do the same shit you've always done in life and never grow. But otherwise, if you're stretching, you're going to feel that and then eventually, you get so used to performing and things you haven't done, then you have confidence, you don't feel like an imposter. If I dream up a new thing for the Fit For Service community, it's not like I'm like, "I don't know if we can do this." I'm like, "Yeah, we'll pull it off. We always do." But you eventually get to that confidence but nonetheless, every time it's like, fuck, we've never done this. I don't know if... It's just normal. That's what I always tell people. You're going to feel it. No matter what as long as you're stretching people. It's almost worrisome if you stop feeling impostor syndrome, because that means you're coasting.

ROB: Well, that's also why you feel the feeling of I can't believe this actually happened like you were saying, with Onnit, with everything that you do. The good thing about impostor syndrome and the good thing about fear, is that fear is showing you the edge of your comfort zone. Fear is a physical manifestation of where you're pushing past your normal self. So, usually, what we do is we feel fear and then we back off a little bit. When in reality, when we feel fear, we should literally feel that feeling and go, "Oh, I've met my edge. This is where I need to keep pushing." If we're really about expansion, and trying to expand ourselves into something more, then when we feel that feeling of fear. It's like, "Oh, here it is. I found it. Let me keep pushing past it." People think that people like you don't feel fear. He must not feel fear. When you hear people like, "Oh, our fearless leader." Everyone feels fear. It just depends on how you play with it. Do you listen to it or do you dance with it? What is it? I feel fear, here it is but it's not going to hold me back from doing what it is I truly want to do.

AUBREY: People imagine fear is, just because I'm not afraid of what you're afraid of doesn't mean I've transcended fear. I can walk up and give a speech and not be nervous about it to 100 people, 500 people, whatever, but I can find myself terrified alone in my car about some manifestation of my own mind. So it's a good point. Fear is always a compass of alright, this is showing me something, showing me a place where I'm not--

ROB: It's showing you your edge. That's all that it's doing. The comfort zone, I say your comfort zone is where your dreams go to die. So if you want to stay in that motherfucker, you can but when you feel the fear, it's like this is the feeling I'm supposed to feel. 

AUBREY: Yeah, exhilaration. Where can people find you brother?

ROB: The Mindset Mentor Podcast is my podcast. Comes out four times a week, usually about 20-minute episodes and @robbialjr, R-O-B-D-I-A-L-J-R is Instagram you can connect me. If anyone's a coach and you want to learn more about it, we can chat about it. It would have been @robdial but there's a guy who hasn't posted in six years and it's six pictures on there and four of them are pictures of weed but they're still out there. I can't get it. So @robdialjr is the easiest place to find me.

AUBREY: Yeah. Beautiful Man. Thanks for coming on. It was a great show.

ROB: Thanks for having me, man. 

AUBREY: Thanks, everybody. Much love. Peace.